DP wants me to cut off my mother.

[Bloodymother321]

My mother has severe MH issues - if she was a child today she’d be diagnosed with a whole range of issues but currently it’s just depression and anxiety.

She’s always been extremely difficult and my childhood wasn’t great with her - constantly treading on egg shells and a host of emotional/verbal abuse. I couldn’t wait to leave home at 18 and never went back. In my adult life I’ve never really spent more than a couple of days with her and only visit a few times a year but that’s more for her sake than mine.

We’re currently spending more time together due to a family emergency/organising a funeral etc and she’s being awful to everyone she’s around. My family understand that it’s ‘just her and she can’t help it’.

Yesterday she gave her opinions to my partner out of nowhere because he was being slightly cold with her (he was getting to the end of his tether as she’s been making digs at us, our home and at him for days now). She’s told him that I’m way too good for him, that he’s not a real man (because she saw me taking out the bins), that he’s a disgrace of a human and called him every name under the sun. Two minutes later she asked him what he was making for dinner (she’s able to flip and then be completely fine which is a complete head fuck). He’s honestly been really good to her for the last couple of years and he’s a good person.

This morning he offered me a cup of tea and offered her one as well which she replied ‘do not talk to me’ but then changed her mind and demanded that he made her one.

He’s absolutely fuming, hiding out in our bedroom biting his tongue.

We’re trying for a baby and hoping to get married in the next year or so and he’s had a serious chat with me that he doesn’t want to bring a baby into this family and he certainly doesn’t want her at the wedding. I’ve begged her to apologise but she 100% believes she’s done nothing wrong.

I would cut her out as she only brings stress to my life but she’s not able to function by herself - not able to hold down a job for more than a couple of weeks due to ‘personality differences’ and she struggles with any form of paperwork therefore I give her basic income to live off and have to help her function. She doesn’t have any friends and every family member keeps her at arms length - Sadly nobody wants to be around her.

She is toxic/manipulative/bitch but she can’t help it. If I cut her out of my life she could be dead for years and nobody would notice. She does love me and I do really feel sorry for her.

I feel pulled and really don’t know what to do.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

Your DM hasn't changed. Your DP's response to her has and he has jumped to cutting her off, not having her at the wedding, not having a child with you unless you promise to cut your DM off

But the dm has changed. She has started on the Dp and the Dp has set his boundaries.

It is up to the op to set hers.

[Roselilly36]

I am NC with my mum, for very similar reasons you mentioned. If you want to go NC do it, I would recommend it. But only if you want that, never because your DP tells you too.

[notalwaysalondoner]

God that’s difficult.

I personally would never go no contact unless/until it is YOUR choice. To do it for your DP will just lead to huge resentment - to force someone to choose between you and their own mother is extreme, particularly if she’s mentally unwell.

However, I would advocate really cutting down contact. Start by minimising her interaction with your DP - meet only at her house, for example. Then once your DP has calmed down a bit, I’d have a proper chat with him where you say “I love you DP and I recognise my DM is extremely difficult to be around, but she is my mother and I am not going to cut her off entirely, but I do agree we need to create a situation that ensures neither you nor I are distressed by her any longer”. Then agree a set of ground rules between you which basically establish something that works for both of you e.g. you’ll only see her out of the house/ you’ll ensure he can go out when she comes over / you’ll only see her once a month and speak to her on the phone once a fortnight (substitute as appropriate)/ when you have DC she’ll only see them for an hour once a month... etc. You’ll also need to set your ground rules about the money you give her - if you get married or are together for a very long time he may find it hard seeing “your family money” going to your mum, so best to raise it now.

But I do strongly feel if you want to keep contact and financial support it’s your choice, not his, and actually, good for you for being so selfless. We live in a world of “be kind” yet everyone on here always advises to cut contact with vulnerable mentally ill people just because they’re difficult to be around. But if you WANT to support her (within your own boundaries) good for you.

We have a family member (aunt) who sounds very similar - mentally unwell and extremely unpredictable, takes huge offence at the tiniest things and ruins gatherings for everyone around her by sulking/having tantrums etc. So I can see how difficult it must be.

[HisNibs]

I'm surprised DP is still with you to be honest. Clearly things have to change unless you want to remain single and sole carer for DM. Face it - will other men be queuing up to take his place? Your DP is perfectly correct that no child you have should be brought up around her and is wise to put things on hold for now.
Only you can decide how to proceed but given what you've said, it's clear she is the problem and she needs to sort it out. By all means get her that help but don't keep enabling her to carry on as at present. Why are you putting her above your own and DP's well being (and any future children). I've not seen anything in your op to suggest she deserves it.

[FatPantsOn]

It's fine for you to decide to let her treat you this way.

It's not fine for you to let him be treated this way.

He is entirely right.

[Merryoldgoat]

I wouldn’t marry or have a child with someone who is involved with a parent like yours.

I might consider it if they went NC but I’d still be reluctant.

[GrumpyHoonMain]

I think you need to either cut her off or end any hope of a relationship / family for yourself. Those are the only two options here and in your position I would cut her off and try to chase my own happiness

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Watching someone be abused is horrible. And that's what he's been doing, watching you be abused. He's drawn the line at being abused himself and watching his children be abused.

Find a way to heal yourself and stop accepting this as normal.

[Breelight]

Very difficult! Regardless of the current situation, I would be taking a step back from her anyway, as you have to let her start to take more responsibility for herself. She may prove to be much more capable than she has shown so far. If she hasn't been refereed to a Social Worker, this would be helpful as they can take help her sort out any benefits she is entitled to. It doesn't sound like she will ever change and you need to live your life, however to cut her out of your life completely I can imagine would prove to difficult for you. A gradual withdrawal would demonstrate to your partner that you are able to take control of this so that he is more likely to trust that you will do so if you are in a more permanent relationship.

[MyShinyWhiteTeeth]

We have a family member who sounds similar. I've mostly taken a huge step back. It was hard but I needed to do it for my own health and to stop my child to be exposed to their toxic behaviour. I used to let her get away with too much. I refuse to be treated that way any longer.

They have improved but they constantly push boundaries so I need to be vigilant when we interact. As with a difficult friend I ask her how she is going to solve her own problems. I refuse to take responsibility for her.

She is surprisingly capable when she wants to be. People that insist she behaves do get results from being strict with her. The bus drivers refused to pick her up and have her on the bus. She had to change to use a different bus route but she now keeps her mouth shut and behaves on the bus.

She was banned from many shops so now has to walk further to get her shopping. They refuse to deliver her shopping anymore so she has to do it herself. She now generally behaves.

There are people who let her be rude to them; she treats them badly. Others have pulled away from her and she knows they won't tolerate her shit. She is nicer to them.

[flamingochill]

Your DP is right. It would be cruel to bring a child in that situation and it is cruel to force your dp to tolerate this. (Unless you will keep your child away from her completely) Your dp is a saint tolerating this. You are enabling her behaviour. I get that this is all you know but I feel very sorry for your dp. He must really love you to still be with you.

The problem is your mum not your dp. He's clearly tolerated far more than most and must be fuming to be treated so badly. If you were a man people would be telling you to open your eyes and protect your wife.

[Daisyxxchainxx]

She sounds really unkind. Definitely toxic. You can't deal with that kind of behaviour. If she makes you miserable, cut her off. Imagine your child watching her treat you two like this.

I have ups and downs with how I feel about my mum. I love her but she's abit cold. Sometimes I wish I had had a better mum, capable of showing affection. She's in hospital at the moment and it's really upset me. There must be a reason behind your mums behaviour. What was her childhood like? Has she been in a bad relationship? Has anything horrendous happened to her? I know my mum's had operations her whole life. She was also raised by someone born in 1912. Times were different. I think we sometimes show affection much better now.

[Branleuse]

i wouldnt accept anyone telling me to do something as massive as going no contact with a parent. Thats for you to decide only

[NudgeUnit]

If I were in your shoes - and I have been in them - I would cut contact for the sake of my own wellbeing, not just his. However, going NC, which I've done in the case of my own family member and which was the best decision I ever made, is not an easy thing to do and isn't really a thing one can reasonably ask someone else to do. I think it would be reasonable for you to go LC though, and for her not to come to your shared home and for him not to have to deal with her. Relationships with putative grandchildren are a separate issue but one you should think through now. You may feel, not unreasonably, that she and your DCs will have a right to see each other, even if that also takes place without your partner being there, though for myself I have to say it was the toxic effect of family dynamics on my DCs themselves that was the catalyst for going NC altogether. This is a bad race in which to change horses midway, so do think about that now.

I think you're right to see that she is a victim too in some ways, and it's big of you to support her financially if you can afford it. If you really can, then I would set that up quietly as a standing order that can take care of itself with no drama and no discussion. If you can't really afford it, or won't be able to once you have a family of your own to think of, then I think you should stop, without guilt.

In my experience, going NC, LC or just trying to take the opportunities for drama and conflict out of the relationship will lead to pushback from her, as the drama and conflict is her fuel. In that event, cutting her out altogether may be the only option left to you, and if so then you'll feel a lot better once you come out the other side. It will be hard to see that now though.

You should do all these things for yourself, not because your DP gave you an ultimatum.

It is hard for people who haven't been in this situation themselves to understand how non-B&W it is. There are no perfect solutions to having a toxic narcissist in the family. It's OK to feel conflicted and to feel as though there's something wrong with all of your options. You do have choices though. Please feel free to PM if you think it might be helpful to you.

[AskingforaBaskin]

And it's for him to decide that this is to much BS and to leave OP.

I'd chose the lovely, healthy man over the hot mess that is her mother.

[TiddlestheCat]

This is an extremely difficult one, but even adults with mental health and personality disorders need to be held accountable for their behaviour, because it can make them worse if they are pandered too. I would sit down with her and explain that it's not ok for her to say those things to DP and then expect to attend your wedding. I wouldn't cut her out of your life altogether, but she needs clear consistent boundaries and training. Make it absolutely clear that it's not ok to say such things/behave like that and that, if she does, in future you will turn and leave. There is no need for an argument. You just get up and leave every single time. You will need to protect your baby. I would try and keep track of her negative/disruptive behaviour to see if you can identify any triggers ( i.e. whether her comments are at the start/end of visits, whether she has had any wine/been on her own a lot/is frustrated etc). If you're able to, keep any visits short and to a minimum. Assume the role of a caregiver, rather than a daughter, and expect the same level of respect. If she is able to moderate her behaviour at all towards others or in different situations, then it may be that she's capable of treating you with more respect too. This does sound like a difficult situation all round. I would also see if you can get her additional support from charities/volunteers in order to reduce the burden upon yourself.

[Abouttimemum]

Haven’t read the thread but DH cut his mother out of his life when he was 22 as she is a hideous human being. He’s far happier without her and doesn’t give her a second thought. Rightly so.
Sadly anyone can be a parent regardless of how fucking awful they are.

[Fanthorpe]

I don’t think lots of people really see what’s going on until someone from outside points out how dysfunctional things have become. Having a family member who makes everyone feel they have to accept walking on eggshells to accommodate them and behaves in an anti-social manner can get normalised. You don’t have to accept it just because someone’s a blood relation.

[Oliversmumsarmy]

I suppose you have to ask yourself why you have put up with this abuse for so long.

Has your mother’s verbal abuse affected your esteem so much that you are stuck in this relationship

It is like an abused wife who finds it hard to leave.

[Chickychickydodah]

You need to stop being an enabler and let her run her own life, you deserve a happy life not treading on eggshells all the time. Tell her youre done and enjoy your life . It will be hard but do it !

[TiddlestheCat]

Also, you didn't say, bit would you like her to be present at your wedding? If you take away the feelings of obligation/guilt, do you actually want her to be a part of your big day?

[TheBouquets]

Your opening paragraph says it all for me. You say she has mental health issues. Also that if she was a child today she would be diagnosed with a lot of things. There is a problem with your mother and it appears to be mental health related.
Would you and DP want to cut her off if she had been born without a leg or lost a leg due to some health issue or an accident? Would you cut her off if she had acne scarring or a skin disease?
I think mental health issues are very difficult to deal with in every case. What would worry me a lot is that would DP get fed up with OP if she developed a mental health issue.
There is very little feeling of sympathy in this thread.

[ComeBy]

OP, my heart goes out to you.

The truth is like many other posters, I would not be planning marriage and a baby with you while your mother has you in this vice like grip of FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt).

None of this is your fault, and FOG is natural - the blood is thicker than water belief runs deep within us.

You could give your mother functional support IF you can de-couple yourself from the FOG, and assist her with the mindset of a professional carer, and without letting her into your emotional self.

But you will need professional support for this.

You do not need to give her money. You could assist her to get benefits.

You really cannot expect your DP to endure such abuse.

Begging her to apologise is one thing - why aren't you telling her that if she doesn't apologise and that if she ever behaves like that again she will be out of your house, no ifs, no buts and funeral notwithstanding. You and your DP need to stand together, back to back against the world, if you are to make a family within which to raise a child.

Counselling, and some of the books recommended.

I do wish you luck OP - none of this is your fault, but it is in your gift to change it.

[crusheddaffodils]

I would be saying the same as your DP, I'm afraid. I'm sure it's very difficult but I think if she will not change and treat your DP with respect, you will have to choose. And it's not just choosing her or him - it's choosing her or yourself.

[BoomyBooms]

OP I voted YANBU because I don't think you are unreasonable to want to see your mother safe and healthy, but also want your husband to be happy.

Your mother's behaviour sounds too me like it could be learning disability related. I have some experience in learning disabilities/autism and mental health and what you have described sounds like that kind of behaviour. Or personality disorder. Given that it doesn't sound like she knows what she is doing, from the little information you have given.

Unfortunately whatever the reason for her behaviour, your husband is completely within his rights to say what he has said. He can't be blamed for finding her hard and worrying about her impact on future children.

Unfortunately it does sound like you have to choose. Instead of completely cutting her off maybe you could transfer her money monthly but do nothing else and refer her to social services? Or has she manipulated you to get that money in the first place? Once you have a child you'll need that money yourself.

Really feel for you OP, you have an upsetting decision to make.