Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

Please please protect your daughter and do trust your gut. We had one paedophile in the family, saw him once a year and my parents ever let me alone with him. Even as a child I felt very uncomfortable around him, didn’t want to be near him, or go to the garden with him(he asked to show me things etc). I only found out much later that he is a paedophile. Instincts can be very strong.

Please don’t let ILs look after DD alone especially if BIL can be around. Sounds like FIL is aware something is not right.

Really pp.

Most likely to abuse a hold is a family member. This is a man with apparently no life outside of his computer. His very tactile with a baby his just met. No man I know would be happy playing with a baby in just a towel ffs!

How about those in favour of ah his just excited let their children around a possibly dangerous man 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

YANBU - sounds that you are very obviously correct in your assumptions. Say you'll go to the police but avoid this man anyway and do not live near him.

I’d be interested to see how quickly the divorce papers appear when you tell your DH you think his brother and father are both pedophiles...

Oh no no no. Just reading this made me feel queasy, this is not right, I certainly wouldn’t have him any where near a child of mine

The behaviour of both the Bil and Fil are giving me a knot in my stomach OP.
I was hyper vigilant with my daughter because of what happened to me, just never left her in a situation where anyone would have the opportunity to groom her.
It really isn't worth the risk, in fact cancel the move, keep as far away from them as you can, let them come to you.

Nothing has happened here so far except an overly familiar BIL who sounds like he doesn’t have much going on in life and has taken to his niece. No no no - what about the express overriding of OP's wishes in relation to dd? And the dd crawling up his nearly naked body?

Do not use them for childcare OP, this at the very very least. This must be so awful for you - I think you must discuss it with your DH seriously.
Every single abuser is 'somebody's son, somebody's brother or husband or friend' - it's always so hard to believe if you've known them all your life - this is the problem for your DH. You have to get through to him the seriousness of your fears.

Give your head a wobble. You are accusing your husband’s entire family of being pedophiles over a 2 yo climbing excitedly over her uncle while he was wearing a towel; and her uncle doting on her. My DN at the same age insisted on my newlywed DH to change her nappy; is he a pedophile too for doing it?

I think you are jumping to far too many conclusions over what is essentially a first meeting with your in-laws. It’s inappropriate to even think about leaving your dd with them after just meeting them the once as they haven’t built up a relationship with her or you yet. You need to meet them again, keep an eye out, and then see how the interactions are — I bet he won’t be as interested meeting her a second or third time.

Dont do it. Trust your gut instinct. I wish I had all those years ago. Please. Pay for childcare. Move away. Far away. Keep your daughter close to you when he's there. I'm trying so hard not to cry as I'm typing this. Put her safety first and go with your gut. If your dh really cares about your dd and you, he'll understand. Don't pussy foot around bil in case his feelings get hurt. Better he hurts than your dd. I know I may come across neurotic, but I live with that regret and failure as a parent every day. I can't even imagine how my dd copes.

I am absolutely not 'agreeing' he is a paedo, I am saying that he obviously has a problem with boundaries, and that the very most important thing, and the thing that OP has a legal duty of care with regards to, is ensuring her DD's health and safety.

No need to accuse, but no need to give opportunity, and every reason to safeguard.

I'm with all those saying - trust your gut. I'd rather hurt my DHs (and his family's) feelings than risk DD's wellbeing. You're not accusing him of being paedo, but of being inappropriate.

To those who keep asking 'What if it was your brother playing with DD wearing just a towel'. Unless that towel was covering his swimming suit right after he came out of the pool/sea to the full beach in the middle of the day - I'd feel and act exactly the same. I also tend to believe that most men would be absolutely mortified to be seen by someone elses child wearing barely covering towel. It's the minority who would think that's just fine I'd be worried about.

@grumpyhoonmain there's a huge difference. Your DN asked your husband. But if your husband insisted on changing her nappy first I'd be alarmed. A lot of people are giving advise based on what happened with them. A lot of them are saying no it's not safe. Sometimes you can tell by first impressions.

@SirVixofVixHall

Does he have a learning difficulty OP ?

The tickling could be someone with a LD who doesn’t understand boundaries treating your dd as he might a puppy, but I have seen a local man tickle children, including my dd, then a toddler, and the desperate way he was obsessed with touching them sounds similar to your BiL. I am as sure as I can be that the local man is a paedophile, in spite of my friend insisting that he “just has poor social skills”.
So your posts are ringing alarm bells for me. And whether he has a Learning Difficulty or not is irrelevant anyway, in terms of keeping your dd safe, as his behaviour is so wrong.
Very upsetting for all of you, but your husband’s refusal to see this as an issue is also worrying. Does BiL have any sort of diagnosis ? Why has he never worked ?

Tbh I don't really no much of the details of BILs reasons for not working. I was told anxiety. I don't think DH knows of any LDs but it may be a case of he was assessed but he or ILs has never through to tell anyone.

Chottie Wed 24-Jun-20 20:23:36
Trust your gut.

Do not move.

Pay for childcare
........
That.

However I am not saying your BIL is a paedo; the way he has behaved is odd by any standards but we really cannot state that he had or has dodgy intentions. Only he knows. Nevertheless you cannot take risks with your child.

Most of us would feel the same as you in that situation so stick to your guns. See your parents in law of course but maybe less often and your brother in law, only when there are several people around. I really do hope your husband will understand. If there are difficulties in that department maybe another, completely neutral, person that you both know and trust could help to explain. An outside opinion is often useful.

All the very best to the three of you

@DeerHeart

I can’t believe so many people are just saying agreeing he is a paedo with no evidence whatsoever except one incident where they were messing around with another adult and he was in an towel.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous and typical MN behaviour, really extreme. Someone also Said DH was a bad parent for questioning it! Nothing has happened here so far except an overly familiar BIL who sounds like he doesn’t have much going on in life and has taken to his niece. You’ve given no evidence except you’re accusing him of being a peadophile on your ‘gut instinct’?! I’m absolutely flabbergasted.

I have been around MN for a bit and thought a lot about posting for that reason. I trust DH totally and he's an amazing parent. He has an innocent view and didn't grow up a girl so doesn't no.

His behaviour has been consistently inappropriate. And OP felt something was off about BIL and FIL's reaction and the towel incident (and yes he was naked). Trusting your instincts is the safest way to go and putting in appropriate safeguards.

No-one on here has suggested OP publicly accuse BIL of being a paedophile, unless I missed a post, but to keep her child safe. Sensible not hysterical

I’m baffled by so many posters in here defending BIL and FIL. I really hope they don’t have children as they’re clearly not fit to protect them. It doesn’t matter if PIL get offended, it doesn’t matter if they hate you, it’s more important to protect your daughter xx

Trust your gut, absolutely. There is a reason you have these sort of reactions in these sort of situations and it's to protect you (or in this case, your child). Please protect her.

@i

Please trust your gut instinct, I wish my mum had. I was abused by a family member for years. Sounds like both BIL and FIL may be paedophiles. Go ahead with the Sarah's Law request, however remember this will only turn up information if they have ever been caught, so many paedophiles are not. Just trust your feelings, for what it's worth, I would be staying as far away from the in-laws as possible. Please protect your little girl.

Don't move. You don't need to.

don't take no -I've told you not to touch her face -I can if I want to -do it again and we are leaving. Normalising it or making the mother out to be paranoid or feel unreasonable is what abusers do. Sarah's Law too.

To whoever was claiming that the BIL's behaviour was innocent - the man is middle aged, he spends his life on the internet, he apparently has social anxiety - so if your DB and wife and child finally visit you have a shower and wander around in a towel?? He hardly knows the wife and child, his behaviour is strange. And if he has social anxiety and doesn't go out much why should he feel entitled to constantly touch the 2 year old, despite being asked not to. It doesn't look good imv.

Why did your FIL take your daughter into his bedroom where his half naked son was?

I think a big concern is that you have asked BIL not to do things & he has actually told you that no, he can do it if he wants to.

So your husband agrees that it isn't acceptable but what?

Wants to take the risk of your daughter being upset/feeling uncomfortable/abused because his mum, dad & brother & their wishes matter more than his 2yr old daughter?

It's not happening to him-who can say no/walk away FFS.

It's a 2yr old who'll have to put up with it!

Thanks for all your posts. Tbh I expected a lot more of you to tell me IABU. I've really agonized about this. A lot of sleepless nights trying to put it in a box I can understand. I can't rationalise the behavior and go around in circles about how to deal with it. But I can't ignore this feeling, she's played with other men and I've not got it. I have nightmares about what could happen. Fuck why do we live in a world like this?

trust your gut

even reading it i was saying "no no no no no".

i am a mother, i would never leave my children with someone like this.