Inappropriate BIL behavior?

[confusedm1]

Long story here. I don’t have anyone else to get advice from about this so hoping MN can give me some. I’m ready to be told IABU. I’ve had some postnatal anxiety so I’m not sure if I’m being unnecessarily worried.

Parent in-laws live 10 hours away. BIL lives in a small flat very close to them, visits most days, he basically lives there half the time. He’s middle-age, has social anxiety, doesn’t work or see any friends or extended family, no girlfriend. From what I can gather he spends a lot of time on the internet and sees his parents and that’s about it. He’s had drug problems in the past and frequently has suicidal thoughts. Until below I thought he was a nice, quiet man who had a rough life. Now I don’t no what to think.

I’m a FTM to a 2 year old DD, who is also the family’s 1st GC. Me and DH visited in-laws before lockdown.
BILs actions towards DD made me uncomfortable straight away. He would constantly touch her face, I mean all the time and pat her head like a dog. He would lie on the floor so DD could climb him. Try to tickle her at the time. He was way more involved than any other family member. But I put it down to me being over protective.
He would also put food on her highchair but not stuff I would normally give her so I would say “please don’t give her that” and he would say “no she’s fine.” I also asked him not to touch her face all the time he said “yes I can.” He would stay overnight at the in-laws, sleep on the sofa. I think this was so he could be there when she got up in the morning. If she took a tumble he would jump in and grab her to console her, before me or DH had a chance to. It’s almost like he wants to be her parent.
It was odd but I put all this down to him never having much interaction with baby’s, this was his first time seeing her and my anxiety.

So then on the last night we were there, I was getting her bath ready at night. BIL has just had a shower, again he did this sometimes (no Idea why but everyone thought it was normal). My FIL took DD into there bedroom, where BIL was. I heard her crying so went in. My heart fell out of my body at this point. DD was crawling up BILs body who was only wearing a towel and not covering himself very well. FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out. I think he realised it looked doughy. I should have had words with him then about it but I didn’t and left the room.

I told DH everything and my feelings about BIL but we go round and round. Ending in “so basically your saying my brothers a peado” NO but I cant ignore my feelings. DH agrees this is unacceptable behavior from BIL but to just leave it now and have words if anything else happens next time we visit. It could all be a misunderstanding. I have this bad feeling about BIL, I can’t explain it. I never had it before DD. A feeling of deep dread in my gut.

We plan to move soon (delayed by CV) to be near in-laws, they want to look after her while I’m a work which would be great and save money. But I’ll be worried constantly about BIL being there. Watching her alone while MIL pops to shop or something. I sway between thinking IABU and it’s good he wants to be so involved. Or I need to protect her and be cautious. I would feel absolutely terrible if anything happened, it’s every parents worst nightmare.

So WWYD and AIBU?

[Bluntness100]

Do you not think it's quite overly familiar to have a child climbing on top of you when you are naked

He wasn’t naked. I’m not saying the op is wrong, I am saying there is another interpretation other than paedo and the dads in on it. Saying he was naked is not right though. He wasn’t.

[Bloomburger]

Go to the police and ask them to check him out, I bet he doesn't spend all his time on line looking at the John Lewis website.

If you found out in 20 years that he had been accessing photographs of children being abused and had somehow gone on to abuse another child would you look back and think that you'd wish you'd have told the police. Tell them now.

[Bloomburger]

He wasn't naked but it's inappropriate and added to the other behaviour should set huge bells ringing.

[Idaofmay]

With a towel on he was all but naked.

What made your DD cry OP,, do you know?

[Windinmyhair]

Trust your instinct.

I would put it to your DH - if it was all so innocent why did FIL react in the way that he did?

There is something wrong here.... his behaviour is not within the normal boundaries of expected social behaviour - there may be more than one reason for that, but you will never get to the bottom of it in a good way.

i'd second those that say cancel the move and the childcare. Reassess.

DH needs to listen and you need to tell him that by safeguarding your child he is not saying that automatically his brother is a paedophile.

[tiredanddangerous]

Maternal instinct is a thing, and we have it for a reason. Don’t ignore it.

[confusedm1]

@Socialdistancegintonic

Also, why are you moving near ILs?

I’m worried about a few things. Your DH was just defensive of his family, not concerned about his own daughter.

You do not seem assertive enough to stop this. You seem a bit passive - you left the room, did not challenge, are saying they will want to do childcare.

I completely froze. I was trying to processing what was happening. I was also very sleep deprived. By the time I sorted myself out FIL had left and I thought I would throw up.

[LochJessMonster]

You’re basically accusing your husbands whole family of either being a pedophile or allowing inappropriate contact.

If he divorces you, you won’t get any say in who looks after your daughter.

All from one incident that you didn’t bring up with them at the time. He wasn’t naked and he wasn’t touching her in any sexual way.
He comes across as a bit socially awkward and not too familiar with children (hence the head patting) but eager to be involved.

[GoldenZigZag]

OP look at what happened. He did something completely and blatantly inappropriate, and every single one of you just kept quiet and brushed it away. I'm not blaming you, I'm just saying how something like this happened in plain sight and no one said anything

Totally agree, from the very first time he touched her face after you said not to you (or your DH) should have blown it wide open, you say clearly and firmly "BIL we need to have a conversation about boundaries.." and then go into why it is completely unacceptable to ignore your wishes and to invade her bodily autonomy, be clear that even if he meant no harm, breaching boundaries in this way creates a template for future episodes when more nefarious people might be testing her boundaries.

We ALL need to get better at these difficult conversations.

[OhCaptain]

I wish to God that my parents had trusted their instincts. I wish they hadn't allowed a close family relationship to cloud their judgement.

I wish they hadn't tried to explain away or justify certain behaviours, as some posters here are urging you to do.

Mostly, I wish they'd erred on the side of caution. I wish they'd thought "that doesn't seem right, and I could be paranoid but I'm going to act as though I'm not being."

It might have saved me. It might have saved my sisters.

[LochJessMonster]

Your husband is minimising your concern, so he is not a suitable parent
Your DH was just defensive of his family, not concerned about his own daughter.

So if someone said to you they saw your brother playing with your baby only wearing a towel, you would all immediately agree he was a pedophile?

[WingingItSince1973]

Bluntness100 op said he had just a towel on that wasn't quite covering himself properly and a 2 year old climbing on him so yes this was a totally inappropriate situation be in. At the very least he needs to be told what is not appropriate behaviour around children. I was abused by my step dad. My mother brushed it under the carpet for years and years which led to mental health issues later in adult life. Fortunately I'm married into a family that do take these things seriously. OP I would def chat with your friend. Before the towel incident I would have become extremely annoyed at his lack of respect to you as his mother. Now I think something is deeply wrong so sorry xx

[confusedm1]

@bakingberry

Hi OP, did I read it right that your DD is now 2 and this was BIL first time meeting her?

Is there a reason they've not met before? The reason I ask as I wonder if there is something in the back of your mind that delayed them meeting sooner?

I think you need to trust your gut and maybe even voice your concerns to the family. Your peace of mind is more important than trying to please your in-laws. It's easier for him to back off and respect your wishes than it is for your to deal with the consequences.

Well because we live far away and ILs came to us. A few other reasons including DH work and the travel involved to get there with all DDs stuff. BIL doesn't travel so he never visited. Purpose of the trip was for her to meet friends and family.

[BlackSwan]

This isn't normal. I would never allow my child to have contact with a person like this ever again. Actually, i would make sure I don't ever have to have contact with them myself ever again either. Anyone challenging that decision would come to understand how utterly fucking serious I was.

[confusedm1]

@Idaofmay

Trust your gut.

I have lots of uncles, not one of them would have let one of the many little cousins clamber over them while wearing only a towel.

Why was your DD crying?

Interesting that FIL whisked her away. He wouldn't have done that if this was a case of naive people not realising how what they see as an innocent situation can look inappropriate.

I put her crying down to being tired and a low day meeting lots of new people.

[confusedm1]

@sassysoul

I think BIL will make more of an effort to be at you PILs if the DC is there too, there will be too many opportunities for him, this post has made me feel so uneasy, as mothers we must do everything we can to protect our children, whether your instincts are right or wrong it's not worth the risk

Yes I believe so too, he upped it while we were there. I'm guessing he would be around every opportunity. This is my problem with the childcare

[SirVixofVixHall]

Does he have a learning difficulty OP ?

The tickling could be someone with a LD who doesn’t understand boundaries treating your dd as he might a puppy, but I have seen a local man tickle children, including my dd, then a toddler, and the desperate way he was obsessed with touching them sounds similar to your BiL. I am as sure as I can be that the local man is a paedophile, in spite of my friend insisting that he “just has poor social skills”.
So your posts are ringing alarm bells for me. And whether he has a Learning Difficulty or not is irrelevant anyway, in terms of keeping your dd safe, as his behaviour is so wrong.
Very upsetting for all of you, but your husband’s refusal to see this as an issue is also worrying. Does BiL have any sort of diagnosis ? Why has he never worked ?

[LillianBland]

FIL grabbed DD, said “I’ll take her downstairs” and pretty much ran out.

Your fil doesn’t trust his own son. This is nothing about it looking dodgy, this is about it being dodgy. You need to arrange childcare elsewhere.

[NorthernIrishFeminist]

To those posters who are getting indignant saying you're accusing bil of being a paedo we're not saying he is, we're saying he might be we're saying there is reason to be concerned, that abuse happens horrifyingly often and that protecting OPs DD is more important than not offending someone who openly ignored OPs boundaries wrt DD

[SirVixofVixHall]

Oh and no, obviously you can’t leave your dd there.

[confusedm1]

@G3entlemanjack

I would stop discussing this and say very clearly that your dd will NEVER be allowed to be in that house/with those people unless you are there with her. End of. And he can extrapolate from that what he will.

I think it's possible that you've downplayed the seriousness of this (unintentionally) because no one is siding with you and it's easy to overlook things if someone's telling you that you're wrong all the time.

Do NOT let this happen.

FWIW my dd was groomed and touched inappropriately at school when she was six. Nothing extreme thank God, but very definitely on the way there. And I'd had a bad feeling about the guy from the moment I saw him. My exact thoughts were "If there's a paedophile around here, it's you." That was September and the grooming took place in December at an after school club. ALWAYS trust your instincts.

Fuck, at school? that's not right.
I always knew I would have to protect her from people but I thought I would get a few years before I came across a situation, and I thought it would be child minders or school not my family.

[Bluemoooon]

Perhaps you could speak to FIL about it, just to see what his reaction is. To confirm the behaviour was as weird as it seemed to you.
What the hell was he thinking. And he obviously KNEW what was happening was not acceptable as he picked up DD and rushed downstairs.
The constant touching etc when you have asked BIL not to. Really strange behaviour. Not normal.
But his DPs will definitely cover for him, imv, even if there are paedo tendencies as they will just be in denial. Not being in denial brings too many issues and problems into their lives. Therefore you cannot trust them to put DD's welfare first imv.
At 2 it's a definite no to being looked after by DGPs.

[DeerHeart]

I can’t believe so many people are just saying agreeing he is a paedo with no evidence whatsoever except one incident where they were messing around with another adult and he was in an towel.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous and typical MN behaviour, really extreme. Someone also Said DH was a bad parent for questioning it! Nothing has happened here so far except an overly familiar BIL who sounds like he doesn’t have much going on in life and has taken to his niece. You’ve given no evidence except you’re accusing him of being a peadophile on your ‘gut instinct’?! I’m absolutely flabbergasted.

[Chottie]

Trust your gut.

Do not move.

Pay for childcare

[Tinalima]

You should trust your instinct and if I were you I wouldn’t leave your daughter with your FIL too,him running out of the room quickly would make me suspicious. I personally don’t trust any man and would never ignore my gut instinct.