To think this is a really awkward question

[TalkingToGhosts]

‘Where are you from?’

I’m dating. I get asked it an awful lot.

I’m a white, English born Brit but have dark features. I tan well and get mistaken for Western European quite often. I might be misconstruing the question and they mean ‘where are you based’ - but that’s right there on my profile so I don’t think it’s that.

I feel like I’m being fetishised a bit. Well not me specifically, but the thought that I look Spanish or Italian and that sounds exciting to them.

And I never know how to answer. I’m not ‘born and bred’ in one county as I’ve moved around a bit so it feels awkward to answer.

AIBU or is it a bit rude to ask that a few messages into a conversation?

@botedbored

My answer is the same to whoever asks me "Where are you from?" whether they are BAME or not. Depending on the context, I will say the city I currently live in, or if I am meeting someone for the first time locally and they comment on my non local accent, I will say the town
I grew up in until I left home.

Most of the time, people are just curious and want to create conversation, but I am just agreeing with why it can be awkward in the way the the op said.

I just think where are you from is a conversation starter.

The OP thinks she is being fetishised because she tans & has dark features. I don't particularly think dark features & a tan is very unusual in the UK, is it?

I’m mixed race and get this far too much. Also “you are soooooooo exotic/sultry etc” and assumptions based on the ethnicity I look like rather than the ethnicity I am (ie firey temper, good at pasta dishes, “Latin lover” even though I don’t have a Mediterranean bone in my body). I’m quite a good linguist and have had English speaking people approach me in the UK and the US and randomly start speaking Spanish at Italian AT me and I just pretend I don’t understand and pointedly say “I’m English”.

The people that don’t tend to think it’s a problem are the people that would ask the question. I do find it oddly fetishising and I wish people would stop asking.

Even worse is the question “What ARE you?”

I remember a friend saying “Albanian” and the young man who’d asked her the question sniggered at her response, took the piss out of her accent and said “An alien? Figures!” and him and his bunch of cronies laughed their heads off.

@Lifeisgenerallyfun

Well, I agree there. As someone who is currently pregnant, I do find it weird/creepy when strangers want to approach to touch you! And whilst I don't assume anything malicious is meant by it, I do wonder about whether people examine their own behaviour, as often you have underlying reasons for behaviour (even if it's subconscious or ingrained, but they may not have examined it). It is ingrained in society to some extent, to think it is acceptable to walk up to a pregnant woman and touch her. Just like I do actually think it is unacceptable for someone to touch your hair - but unless you are BAME you won't have had the cultural weight behind someone touching your hair as I have had. So our experiences would differ there. It may well be meant in a lovely way but to me is steeped in years of history of people treating BAME people as commodities/property/exotic pets/token individuals who serve a purpose.

There is a difference between generic inappropriate behaviour, but what I am trying to say is that one experience to two different people will be based on completely different things. So, yes, asking where someone is from may well be normal, but is it acceptable? I would say if it's not based in racism then fine, but sadly, it is too often based on racism for those of us who get asked it daily.

I would never get offended if someone asked me where I was from based on my Yorkshire accent, but when they really want to ask something else in order to satisfy their own curiosity about my ethnic make up - then yes, I may well be offended as it's 1.) none of their business, 2.) very rarely relevant

@NameChange84 Strange that some people don't think questions like 'What are you?' are inappropriate and a bit dehumanising. I get this a lot as well as 'Where are you from/where are your parents from' and other ridiculous comments like 'Oh you're part black, I bet you can dance!'

@AlternativePerspective This survey would be great to see, and understand. As the surveys around BAME I have seen refer to people not using the acronym not because they don't see themselves as Black/Asian/Minority but actually because they didn't understand what the letters stood for.

You've got to be able to have conversations with people, and have honesty. But it is too often the case that people start the conversation and then don't want to accept the reality of it! How many people on this thread have said 'Oh it's not offensive' when the answers from BAME people on the thread have clearly outlined their experiences as to why it is often meant in a different way than when it is asked to a white person?

Nothing wrong with having an interest in other cultures at all! But you have to understand that yes, some of us are fetishised/criticised based on our ethnicities!

It really is amazing that some white people on here don't get it.
(by the way I am white)

Same question can have very different meanings and intention.
Do you have kids? - two people chatting
Do you have kids? potential employer

veyr different meaning. Is it so veyr hard to understand?

Let me give you same question differnt context.
I used to live in Indonesia. There, the quesation Where are you from? Is veyr often used as a greeting. It is ambiguous in Indonesian, but it means, 99% of the time, what's up? Where've you been? What are you up to?

But when our language teacher told us, a room full of foreigners, that that was the meanign we were really confused, because it was a question we were asked often, and, being obviously foreign, it was always asked as Where do you come from ie, which country?

Language teacher assured us we were veyr wrong, and were assured him that people really did want to know which country. Wed knew this because when we tried to reply as a local would - Oh I've been to the market. They looked confused and said no, which country are you from.
Stalemate. Language teacher thought we were not believing him about hsi own language. We thought he was odd t not see that foreigners are of course going to get this question.
It was only once I had lived there for a while, and had local friends, that people started to say to me Where're you from? as a greeting.

2 different experiences of the same question, neither could understand each other view.

Fetishised?

Whaaaaat?

People are asking you a simple question. Are you implying it’s racist?

I'm American and have lived in the UK for over a decade now. There's still not a day that goes by where I'm not asked if I'm "enjoying my visit" or "Where's home?" I used to get all worked up about it, but now just realise it's another version of British small talk---like when the weather isn't as interesting to talk about.

@atimetobealive well, that depends on who is asking and how they're asking! I'll give you two examples that I could get regarding this question as a mixed ethnicity ( black/Asian/Mediterranean) British woman:

Example 1 NOT RACIST: Them: Where are you from?/Me: Yorkshire. Them: Nice, what part? I could definitely tell from your accent....And so on and so forth in a normal conversation.

Example 2 MAYBE NOT INTENTIONALLY RACIST BUT ROOTED IN RACISM: Them: Where are you from. Me: Yorkshire. Them: No, I mean where are you really from? Me: Town name. Them: Yes but, I mean, where you're actually from? Me: Lived there my whole life. Them: But you're not are you? Where are you from? Where are your parents/grandparents from? - assumption that I must be lying to them, as I cannot possibly be giving an honest answer to that question when in fact I am, and they actually want to know why I look the way I do.

I have NEVER had Example 1 happen btw. But cannot count how many times I have had Example 2

Also re being fetishised as a black/Asian/mixed person. You sound shocked/incredulous/disbelieving??? But it does happen....
Example: Oh, I can't wait to see how your baby turns out - mixed babies are so cool. (real comment).
Example: Oh, mixed girls are sexy as they have X Y Z.

People often ask me Example 2 and then go on to say 'Oh, that's why I find you so pretty, because you're mixed with X'. It's very reductive.

I had 13 years of "oh my aunt married a man from cork" (im from dublin). Or "i went to a wedding in kilkenny 8 years ago".
Totally random. But I just saw it as chat.

@steppemum i see you point about context but the context is always "chat" in these small talk situations.

I wouldnt dare ask somebody non white where they were from now because of mumsnet, might still ask somebody white though. It is not a ridiculous question if you are chatting to somebody and you are interested in them.

People can be strange. I remember on a visit to Baltimore, staying with family of my exh.

They took us out and about and we met a great many of their friends and acquaintances and almost everyone we met would say some version of the same thing 'Ooh you're from England. Say something, I just love your accent'.

Became very tedious after a while.

I wouldnt dare ask somebody non white where they were from now because of mumsnet, might still ask somebody white though. It is not a ridiculous question if you are chatting to somebody and you are interested in them.

It's not a ridiculous question if you're genuinely interested in what town they live in, or what town they grew up in. It is a ridiculous question if what you actually mean is "You look a bit foreign but I can't work out your heritage so I actually want to know where your parents are from, but I'm going to cover it up by asking a seemingly innocent question instead". I can see the look on your face when I say London, or the exact suburb, and you give me this confused look because it's not the question you actually wanted the answer to.

And it doesn't just happen to black and Asian people, it also happens to people with white skin including Jewish people. Like I said earlier, I hate being asked because very often, what the person really wants to know is my views on various aspects of Middle Eastern politics, or they want to launch into a political rant. It's happened to me enough times.

One of my DD has has this happen to her on a few occasion because she doesn't look English, but it's usually been because the person who's asking the question thinks she's from their country. Generally it's Italians, and it tends to be older women doing the asking.

I get this all the time! People assume I’m from Spain/Italy/Greece etc.
I get told I look very Mediterranean and have even been asked if I’m mixed race (Asian/British).
It was a constant when I worked for a company selling Asian products and food, I was asked at least once a day! I don’t know if it’s because of my features compared to my accent but it still an odd question to get asked.
I do have olive skin and dark hair, plus I can’t escape my Jewish features (at least until I can afford a nose job!) 😂

Though I want to add I’m not offended by it! I do have very mixed heritage and everyone in my family also say I look greek or something but my mum is the same, she is very dark but all her brothers and sisters are so pale, we get called the black sheep of the family based on physical appearance.

@CulturalDilemma i dont think ive ever done that. The why are you brown question. But the shame now is that natural friendly chat is all seen as the why are you brown question.

People need to toughen up. Im a single parent and nobody thinks omg how will single parents feel if i post these pictures of my breakfast in bed on mothers day (vogue shoot style). Nobody thinks "how will single parents feel if i exclude them at the weekends?". Or, " how will single parents feel if i post about my wonderful husband on father's day?".

Bottom line, everybody potentially feels sensitive about something and 9 times out of ten, people are not trying to other you.

I say this as somebody who has felt a bit marginalised most of my life. Irish in England. Single parent in Ireland. The OLDEST at work!

I’m asked all the time where I’m from. I’m from the UK and live in Latin country where my paleness sticks out like a sore thumb

@Winnerella Agree that it would be sad if natural chit chat died out, but please do bear in mind that actually 9/10 when brown people get asked this question it is EXACTLY because they are brown.

I have to say though, it very much annoys me when people tell others that they should 'toughen up' or that they are 'snowflakes' without considering the fact that actually, the majority of their time is spent actively trying to ignore both small and big acts of racism/discrimination. I actually find that more offensive than the question itself. Don't tell someone to toughen up if you can't actually understand that the person has had to choose daily which battle to fight. I have ignored various acts of racism/ignorance daily for the sake of not causing a scene/not being 'dramatic' or not being seen as 'taking offence at every little thing'. People only really want to see BAME complain about things that they see as worthy of complaint such as out and out being called the n or p word. Anything less than this seems to be seen as people being 'soft' in my experience.

*Also just a note, I wouldn't want to exclude someone based on whether they are a single parent and would think about this! And I do often think about my friends experiences in life (very diverse group in terms of gender/sexuality/family dynamics/ethnicity and religion) , and how my own experiences differ from theirs. I'd hate to feel that I'd made a friend or someone I care about feel excluded or marginalised!

@GalaxyGirl24 Thank you, exactly.

Well I agree with you, toughen up is not helpful but i am conscious that you cannot control others' decision to see you as different or inferior.

My point is more of an idle musing really. People dont think how does this make x,y or z feel when they do a multidute of other normal things. But this particular question has come in for attention.

And yeh "toughen up" is not advice id want to give or receive. And yet, it's exactly what I had to do. I know that becoming more resilient isn't something you can just switch on after an instruction though

I get this all the time. I look quite Eastern European but with more slightly Thai-like eyes. Plus I have a foreign surname from my maternal grandmother. I haven't been offended yet though.

I think people are just curious and trying to be interested. But there are lots of weirdos out there so I get your point

@Winnerella I understand the gist of what you are saying, and I agree that unfortunately, people do have to learn resilience and develop a thick skin.
However I find it more sad, that people would want someone else to learn to ignore racism/discrimination rather than actually asking the person in question to address their behaviour. It's very much victim blaming.

As I said, I think the majority of people who are from an ethnic minority/another country actually have a very thick skin/high levels of resilience that develop over years of exposure to racism. But, if society is ever going to move on, we need to be able to have honest conversations about things that we've had to keep quiet about for a long time.

ah well, I haven't asked that question in a long time. I do not want to make somebody feel uncomfortable. It's not always possible to predict what will make somebody feel uncomfortable though.

I've heard people say ''Did you have far to come?'' a lot lately actually, so I think it is seeping in to the consciousness now.