Not welcome in sister house

[mamascorpio]

I rang my sister today and she has informed me that I am no longer welcome in her home.

My BIL fell out with me in Feb this year after they went through a separation.

I spoke to their Eldest daughter during the separation and advised that if either mum or Dad tried to talk to them about what was going on just to say it was none of her business. Both of them were using eldest daughter 13 as a means of communicating what had gone wrong.

Bil lost it when the eldest daughter told him what I had said. He hasn't spoken to me since, has actively ignored me when I have walked past to go into the house etc.

They reconciled after a few weeks, then Bil decided that I needed to apologise for what I said to Eldest daughter and also for the fact that years before I had mentioned that 1 in 5 children are not the biological child of their father. bIL developed complete paranoia over this and decided that I was trying to tell him that one of his children isn't his. Nonsense.

Further he is also angry apparently that i wasn't happy when my sister and he reconciled.

They had an argument after a night out, he was verbally abusing to my sister, she and 4 of the children came and stayed in my house overnight then he left the house a few days later.

So he had been ignoring me for months, I have simply not paid any attention to the issue although it was annoying on the basis that he was being unreasonable.

So now after I was at their house yesterday he has decided and is supported by my sister that I'm not welcome.

I'm devastated, I live alone with my DS and my sitter is the closest person to me.

Her children all adore my son, and her youngest son stays here and they visit me once per week at least. I visit them also at least once a week.

My sister also looked after my son while I worked, albeit he is going elsewhere at the minute due to covid.

I can't believe my sister would say that to me. I know BIL is well capable of this. He has already fallen out with one of my other siblings. He didn't speak to one of his own for almost 20 years and didn't speak to his father for longer.

I'm so hurt.

Am I being unreasonable to not apologise when I didn't do anything wrong imo.

Or should I have just apologised?

With it. I mean if I said that 1 in 3 women were victims of domestic violence would I also have been accusing him of beating her up.
Only if he had three wives.

@ATomeOfOnesOwn

Ah carlotta so you are the only person allowed to be patronising - saying people don't understand because they don't agree with you. No-one asked OP to pander to her BIL. Posters did point out she was inserting herself in ways that didn't help her DSIS or her niece. And actually that were completely at odds with thinking someone was in an abusive relationship. OP's entitled to centre herself in her life. But if someone suspects abuse then making all interactions with that family about you isn't supportive or helpful. It doesn't allow OP's DSIS to build confidence. It doesn't encourage OP's DSIS to establish boundaries in her relationships and it doesn't give OP's DSIS space to come to terms with her relationship.

Yeah I think you’ve got me mixed up with the other carlotta on the thread love.

But I still don’t agree with you.

I completely agree with this. The 1 in 5 kid conversation happened before they even had 5 kids. It’s a conversation I’ve had at the dinner table with my brother and husband. It’s just a normal headline that gets discussed by families. The fact he still remembers it and uses it at leverage all these years later is disturbing.

^This exactly. We all have this kind of conversation in social events. It's her sister's abusive husband who has now picked up on it as another excuse to isolate her from her family.

I bet the OP wishes she'd never said this but we all have 20/20 vision in hindsight.

This thread makes me really sad.

OP, I totally see where you’re coming from. Some of the replies on this thread are a bit mental, but I gather from your responses that you’re sensible enough to disregard them!

A lot of the chat here is about your Relationship with your sister but it sounds like there are some vulnerable kids involved here too. For that reason, I’d reach out to her and, as another poster said, tell her that you love her and want to support her and the children. They are all welcome at your home and you want to maintain your relationship. If that’s not possible, don’t make it your decision - you’ll regret It forever.

Beyond that, there isn’t much you can do. Sure you could apologise but this man sounds like an absolute thunderc*nt and it’s a matter of time before something else comes up, you can’t compromise yourself forever and in the end, he will continue to win unless your sister decides to leave.

Good luck

When my sister was a teenager she was involved in a physically abusive relationship. When she met BIL every one thought he was great because he didn't hit her.

My Mum is weak, my brothers are younger I think because it's coercive it's harder for people to see and call out.

I'm more aware of it because she shared much more with me.

I won't apologise to him, because I don't say sorry when I haven't done anything wrong. I won't allow him to feel like anytime he take issue with me I will bend to it because I won't.

I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face here. You've said yourself that you were in the wrong over the drive in meal. And the other stuff it's perfectly possible to apologise for in the sense that you're sorry that what you said caused upset in the family, and that you didn't intend for that to happen.

If you really care about your sister you'll try to keep the channels open, surely? Just emailing them both to say you're sorry that you were thoughtless about feeding the children, and you're very sad that the comment that you intended to support your niece had a negative effect on the family might help to break the impasse.

Maybe it'll work and maybe it won't (but do try to sound sincere and not mealy-mouthed or passive-aggressive) but at least you'll have tried.
If your sister means half as much to you as you say, I don't understand why you wouldn't at least try.

Do you think maybe you have a saviour complex?

@saraclara

I won't apologise to him, because I don't say sorry when I haven't done anything wrong. I won't allow him to feel like anytime he take issue with me I will bend to it because I won't.

I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face here. You've said yourself that you were in the wrong over the drive in meal. And the other stuff it's perfectly possible to apologise for in the sense that you're sorry that what you said caused upset in the family, and that you didn't intend for that to happen.

If you really care about your sister you'll try to keep the channels open, surely? Just emailing them both to say you're sorry that you were thoughtless about feeding the children, and you're very sad that the comment that you intended to support your niece had a negative effect on the family might help to break the impasse.

Maybe it'll work and maybe it won't (but do try to sound sincere and not mealy-mouthed or passive-aggressive) but at least you'll have tried.
If your sister means half as much to you as you say, I don't understand why you wouldn't at least try.

I totally see where you’re coming from here. However, I would be worried that if she rolled over for him, it would just give him more of a control over the sister. The sister may think that he’s right after all and it may end up supporting his gaslighting of her.

@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken I'm getting the impression that OP is less concerned with her sister than with herself. I think her nose has been knocked out of joint by BIL and she's pissed off that he's had enough of her, and her sister is sticking by him.

Again, I'm NOT saying that he's not an abuser. But it doesn't follow that OP has acted well or even appropriately. At times she hasn't, I don't think.

[quote OhCaptain]@AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken I'm getting the impression that OP is less concerned with her sister than with herself. I think her nose has been knocked out of joint by BIL and she's pissed off that he's had enough of her, and her sister is sticking by him.

Again, I'm NOT saying that he's not an abuser. But it doesn't follow that OP has acted well or even appropriately. At times she hasn't, I don't think.[/quote]
I disagree. The phone calls by a certain time, the use of an innocent conversation ten years ago as a way to isolate her are big signs for me. Even if the OP is annoying, or has acted inappropriately, this is about a woman being abused by her partner and her sister wanting to ensure she can help as and when she is needed.

But is it help when it's stomped her own sisters boundaries?

I won't pretend that he is the wronged party here. If that costs me what is now a fractured and broken relationship with my sister then so be it

But that will just enable her husband to isolate her even further.

If I were in your shoes, I'd apologise just so that I could be around her and support her.

The Op has said they have been together 20 years. We've had this in my family.
At some point the others around the victim have to chose not to subject themselves to the abuser. She has decided to return. The Op does not have to subject herself to him more.

I'm not saying I'm the perfect sister by a long shot. But I love my sister, I have always been there for her, as she has been for me and I adore my nieces and nephews.

My sister means so much to me, she is my major support system. I'm a single mum to a toddler and she is my closest friend and relative. Being told I'm not allowed to come to her home is devastating for me.

Maybe I'm just reacting to the hurt and pain of my sisters decision.

My BIL stopped speaking to me in Feb, my sister told me he wanted to apologise.

I said I wouldn't because I didn't feel I did anything wrong. For us to go from that to you are no longer welcome in my home feels like I have had my arm cut off,

It's so symbolic of the degree she is now willing to bend to please my BIL.
Everything in their life is fine as long as she doesn't rock the boat, have any demands for herself, needs etc

So yeah I am concerned about myself, my DC who will no longer be able to go to my sisters home. One of my nieces has a birthday this week and I go to everyone one of their birthdays. I will now be excluded from this. I'm also heartbroken for my sister. That a few months of lockdown with BIL has got us to this place.

Every year I get swimming pools etc for my nieces and nephews to play at my house, when summer started I invited her over with the children. She said she couldn't come as it would mean BIL would be in the house on his own all day. So if I can't come to her house, and she can't leave my BIL without the children etc it means I'm effectively cut off from my family.

He's manipulating her and he's abusive. He's made you look like the bad guy because he said he'd apologise and you said you wouldn't.

Your sister is in an abusive relationship, of course she's going to bend to him. She loves him and she's scared of him, she's trying to keep her family together. One day hopefully she will see him for what he is but right now she doesn't.

No he never said he would apologise. But that I had to apologise to him.

I just feel so helpless and sad.

Thank you for all of you who have taken the time to offer support.

She said she couldn't come as it would mean BIL would be in the house on his own all day

Was she worried because he wouldn't have company, would get angry at being left, etc or worried because of what he might do if left in the house alone (smash the place up/contact other women)?

Bad either way, to be honest.

So now she can't come to your house either? What has your family said about this?

TBH I think I'd move closer to my other family in your situation. You can't force your sister to do the right thing. And you can't change anything in their relationship.

Don’t apologise, it's his way of starting to control you as well as your sister, do it once and you will be expected to do it all the time

This.

My Sister us married to a horribly sexist man. He takes offence at anything. Apologise, he waits a few months then funds something else to be annoyed about that necessitates an apology.

Midnight that have form for starting goady conversations then you fall into the trap of making a comment linked with the conversation, and that comment is pounced upon those being personal to him. I thought this as soon as I saw OP's "1 in 5 children' example.

BIL would be happy if I, in fact any of my sister's fenale friends & relatives would be dictated to by him. But, no way. My Sis currently isn't speaking to me, and 2 of our cousins. Her 14 & 16 year old DCs do speak to us, they don't get involved so that's fine.

OP let your sister know you are sad about this and you're always open to contact. But don't apologise to BIL, it's so not worth it. & as he doesn't like you your relationship with your sister will never be the same again anyway; unless she leaves him one day.

Thank you all, I think I have to accept that this is how my sister wants things to be for the moment. I am just going to take a Step back.

He isn't physically violent, it's all
Physiological control, harder to see etc.

The not wanting to leave him alone all day is just manipulating her to not leave the house as he will feel bad. Last summer he left her alone every week in a caravan while he stayed at home Monday to Friday. He was well within committing distance but he enjoyed the peace and quiet without sister and the children.

He has no problem spending time without them.

She comes to my house once a week at the minute to help me about the house cleaning & chores etc. It if wasn't for that I wouldn't really see her at my house. Even that he makes difficult, organises other things so that she can't leave the children etc.

Today has been an awful day, I appreciate all your support and kind words. Hopefully by tomorrow it won't hurt so badly.

Given that his goal is to keep you away from your sister, I would apologise and foil his plans. You dont have to mean it.

You're doing the right thing Op. Do not worry too much about some of the comments on this thread. The negative ones are mostly from the usual suspects who will always champion the menz regardless of how awful they are, or love to give a distressed Op a kicking for their own weird enjoyment. I've seen it time and time again on here. And then other posters pile in to join the gang up mentality (like naughty school children), it's pretty gross. Just ignore. You'll notice most of them also can't seem to read your posts, so they just make up shite of their own to suit the kicking.

As for apologizing. No way! It will only serve to show your DSis that he can control everyone in the family, thus leaving her no where to go if she does decide to run. Stay strong for yourself and for her, you are doing the right thing. I'm sorry you have this bastard in your family, hopefully one day she will be able to walk away. Let her know your door is always open, but have nothing to do with him ever again.

Take care of yourself

Your first paragraph is absolutely ridiculous Zackly!

OP has even just posted to say that her sister of the abusive husband and five children comes to clean her house!

There is more than one person manipulating this woman...

@mamascorpio you should encourage your sister to post.

Op - I think you did the right thing supporting your niece. At 13 she shouldn't be involved in their issues and I'm sure she appreciated you having her back.
I hope in time your sister sees sense. Stay strong. X