Not welcome in sister house

[mamascorpio]

I rang my sister today and she has informed me that I am no longer welcome in her home.

My BIL fell out with me in Feb this year after they went through a separation.

I spoke to their Eldest daughter during the separation and advised that if either mum or Dad tried to talk to them about what was going on just to say it was none of her business. Both of them were using eldest daughter 13 as a means of communicating what had gone wrong.

Bil lost it when the eldest daughter told him what I had said. He hasn't spoken to me since, has actively ignored me when I have walked past to go into the house etc.

They reconciled after a few weeks, then Bil decided that I needed to apologise for what I said to Eldest daughter and also for the fact that years before I had mentioned that 1 in 5 children are not the biological child of their father. bIL developed complete paranoia over this and decided that I was trying to tell him that one of his children isn't his. Nonsense.

Further he is also angry apparently that i wasn't happy when my sister and he reconciled.

They had an argument after a night out, he was verbally abusing to my sister, she and 4 of the children came and stayed in my house overnight then he left the house a few days later.

So he had been ignoring me for months, I have simply not paid any attention to the issue although it was annoying on the basis that he was being unreasonable.

So now after I was at their house yesterday he has decided and is supported by my sister that I'm not welcome.

I'm devastated, I live alone with my DS and my sitter is the closest person to me.

Her children all adore my son, and her youngest son stays here and they visit me once per week at least. I visit them also at least once a week.

My sister also looked after my son while I worked, albeit he is going elsewhere at the minute due to covid.

I can't believe my sister would say that to me. I know BIL is well capable of this. He has already fallen out with one of my other siblings. He didn't speak to one of his own for almost 20 years and didn't speak to his father for longer.

I'm so hurt.

Am I being unreasonable to not apologise when I didn't do anything wrong imo.

Or should I have just apologised?

When we had that conversation there was no problem between us.

The conversation occurred years ago.

He has fallen out with me in Feb this year.

I have always made sure he had nothing to fall out with me about because he has previously cut his sister, and father out of his life.

I feel sorry for your DSIS. If you actually think your BIL is controlling then you have deliberately exacerbated the situation on lots of occasions.
I would not be happy if my sibling tried to tell my DCs how to speak to me. The irony of you telling your niece to say it wasn't her business when actually it wasn't any of your business.

I feel like the replies to this thread are a straight split between those who get what coercive control looks like, and those who really don't.

My DSis's first marriage was abusive and my DH and I supported her when they separated and she came to stay with us. I was horrified when she told me how abusive he had been, but if ever I said anything negative about him, she immediately leapt to his defence.

I worked for a law firm as a legal secretary at the time so I made an appointment for her with one of our solicitors so she could find out where she stood and what her options were. The solicitor's advice was that filing for divorce meant that the process was in her hands so that he didn't have the chance to bully her into agreeing to whatever he wanted. I never said one word about divorce, but following on from this, she did file for divorce.

What I learned from this was that she needed to be in control of what happened. Because she had been downtrodden during her marriage (thankfully there were no children involved!), she needed to have the time to decide for herself.

This story has a happy ending, as my DSis is now happily married to a lovely man and they have 3 DC together, and she has a DSS from his previous marriage.

And now she knows the truth about how abusive her first marriage was. She just wasn't ready to hear it from me at the time.

Your sister needs to make her own decisions about her marriage. Her DH sounds like an abusive arsehole, but she needs to understand it for herself. The one thing you can do is tell her that you will always be there for her and her DC and that your door will always be open.

Yanbu. She is fool enough to listen to him knowing how much you have supported her, so leave her to it.

@ladycarlotta

I feel like the replies to this thread are a straight split between those who get what coercive control looks like, and those who really don't.

^Exactly this.

I could tell some people until I am blue in the face that yes I am not a perfect person/ sister but that effectively making my sister tell me that I'm not welcome in her home isn't a reasonable response to any of them.

@ladycarlotta

I feel like the replies to this thread are a straight split between those who get what coercive control looks like, and those who really don't.

I completely understand what coercive is and have been a victim if it and I do believe this man is controlling his wife. But the OP’s behaviour comes across as a pick me dance and her main concern seems to be how this is affecting HER? She also comes across as quite dominating of her sister. She needs to let her sister know that she’s welcome to her home and her door is open, otherwise the sister will end up feeling as if she has no one but her bullying husband.

Part of the reason why he is so threatened by me is that my sister wanted her and I to get a house together for us all.

He always threatens to stop paying the mortgage and that she would be destitute / homeless without him doing so. Other than looking after my DS she has no income independent of him. He is financially very controlling.

Her having somewhere else to live with my DS and me takes that control away.

I'm sorry this is happening. He does sounds controlling so I'd leave the door open for her but doesn't sound like you have much choice in accepting it for now.

As for the 1 in 5 thing, I've discussed this sort of thing (not exact number but that a lot of mothers lie/don't know who the dad is) in relation to having anti D injections with a few people over the years.

Then you are one of the posters who doesn't get it ladycarlotta. I've been a child in an abusive relationship and I've worked with DV charities. Meddling, raising questions about paternity and trying to create a rift with their DCs, isn't the way to support someone living in an abusive relationship.

Is she still allowed to see you outwith her house and speak to you?

I'd just tell her that she is always welcome at your house and alway will be. That you love her and would love for her to ensure she keeps up with regular visits

The idea that I control my older sister is funny. As sisters we have been through so much together, and never have I ever allowed anyone to affect my relationship with her. We are family, I'm not pick me dancing, I accept that she is married and respect that.

My stepping back is protective of me, after I'm not allowed in the house ? what comes next? She isn't allowed over to see me? Her children aren't allowed over to my house. Do you not see how this will go?

She has 5 children so I am the one who would travel to her most frequently. Excluding me from her house massively takes away from our relationship.

He is obviously totally controlling but I don't think you have helped the situation and the drive through thing was especially thoughtless. When someone is trapped in an abusive relationship all we can do is support and privately raise things that show his beusvior isn't acceptable. By directly poking the bear it is your sister that will suffer.

It is a very difficult balance between support and antagonism. It could well be that your sister is going along with this because you are making her situation worse. The 1 in 5 comment gave him a stick to beat her with, the drive through let him say you over step boundaries, supported by the comment to your niece. Of course you didn't mean anything, but abusers twist things to suit their own narrative and victims go along for an easier life and to get the nice bit of the abuse cycle.

I feel like the replies to this thread are a straight split between those who get what coercive control looks like, and those who really don't

I disagree. Everyone seems to be in agreement that the husband is controlling. The spilt is between those who think the OP is also causing issues for her sister and those who don’t.

Part of the reason why he is so threatened by me is that my sister wanted her and I to get a house together for us all

Seriously? What do you mean “her and I”? Was this if she left her DH?

It sounds like your sister is stuck between him and you and neither her husband or you are helping. She is in an abusive relationship and whether you meant to or not - some of the things you've done haven't helped her.

Tell her you love her and that you'll always be there for her and then take a step back.

@mamascorpio

I went up with my DS, it was raining so I offered to take her DS out for a drive. The older DD asked if she could come too. I told my sister I was going to take them for a drive through. It was about 6.30 / 7 pm. My sister said they were getting dinner shortly but she didn't tell me not to take them. Anyways I took them and BIl wasn't happy that they had chips and chicken from the drive through as opposed to chicken and chips at home. It wasn't a big sit down meal just food on the plate for them all. He was annoyed, told off the youngest and said he shouldn't have been at the drive through. I did it as a treat for the children as it was rainy, all the parks are closed, I can't take them anywhere else atm, they don't even go into a shop etc and I wouldn't take my DS into one either. So basically I gave him the ammunition to get my sister to tell me not to come to the house. I was also up last week for my nephews birthday, he never mentioned the presents I bought of anything else. But now I have done something wrong and he gets to tell me not to come to the house. My sister even though she is being controlled has accepted that this is ok. I don't think that it is and so I will just leave our relationship for the minute. She could have told him to wise up, and just to move on but instead she has decided to tell me not to come to her house, That's not acceptable to me for her to treat me like that. So I'm also stepping away from her as well. I know that it plays into his hands but I have to be clear about what I will and won't tolerate from people in my life as well.

I was completely on your side OP, until you said you took the children for a ‘drive through’, despite your sister saying they were getting their dinner shortly! I would have been pissed off if I had prepared a meal for my children and someone just announced they were taking my children out and did so!

I do think your bil sounds awful and controlling, if everything you say is true, but you are coming across as being very controlling as well. You seem to be forcing your ds to choose between you and her ‘d’h, which is playing right into your bil’s hands! Perhaps you will all be better off if you step back from this relationship at the moment.

Anyways I took them and BIl wasn't happy that they had chips and chicken from the drive through as opposed to chicken and chips at home. It wasn't a big sit down meal just food on the plate for them all.

Wait. So did you get them food in a drive through even though your sister was making dinner?

All you can do is let her know that your door is open for when she needs it, as she will undoubtedly. She just needs to see it for herself.

@ATomeOfOnesOwn

Then you are one of the posters who doesn't get it ladycarlotta. I've been a child in an abusive relationship and I've worked with DV charities. Meddling, raising questions about paternity and trying to create a rift with their DCs, isn't the way to support someone living in an abusive relationship.

I spent five years in one. So don’t tell me I don’t get my own experience how bloody patronising.

Abusers get away with making a whole family’s walk on egg shells and people keeping there mouth shut. Which ultimately feeds his ego and control and keeps every one in a state of panic.

The paternity test is a red herring - he would of found anything to cling on to. It could have been an comment, a look, a laugh after he said something and tbh I’m surprised you dont already know that.

I do not believe OP would have said this to cause the man to suspect one of his own children is not his. It was probably said In conversation or tongue in cheek. Why must she double and triple check every works that comes out of her mouth so he doesn’t start fucking abusing wife? How about the blame gets put on his feet - where it needs to be?

And telling a 13 not to get involved with their parents arguments when they are both using her is sound advice.

OP, I don't understand where your dad is in all this, or why if she has family, the family haven't stepped up, staged an intervention for her, and the men in the family with her while she packed her bags to protect her. An entire family against one man. Why has your family allowed this to happen? If your mother knows what he is like, what is she doing enabling his behaviour by visiting and helping with the children??? All I see (apart from you) is a complicit family and mum who can't be bothered to do a damn thing! If that was my daughter, I'd have my husband, brother, neighbour, etc etc storming that house and getting her out. 20 years, and no one has thought to physically get her out some way, or even threaten the husband and warn him off? Really? 20 years and the mum just goes over there like it's normal and like she and your sister haven't got a care in the world? Unless there is a drip-feed coming or a post I've missed, and I checked twice, I don't understand why your entire family are sitting back and doing nothing. Not only that, but actually going to their house for get togethers, thus indicating acceptance of him/support. It's a pity they can't go there to threaten him/warn him off, or get her out of the house while he's at work.

Ah carlotta so you are the only person allowed to be patronising - saying people don't understand because they don't agree with you. No-one asked OP to pander to her BIL. Posters did point out she was inserting herself in ways that didn't help her DSIS or her niece. And actually that were completely at odds with thinking someone was in an abusive relationship.
OP's entitled to centre herself in her life. But if someone suspects abuse then making all interactions with that family about you isn't supportive or helpful. It doesn't allow OP's DSIS to build confidence. It doesn't encourage OP's DSIS to establish boundaries in her relationships and it doesn't give OP's DSIS space to come to terms with her relationship.

Let her know that you door is open when she wakes up, even if that is years down the line. Let her kids know the same. Then back right out of the drama.

“ Abusers get away with making a whole family’s walk on egg shells and people keeping there mouth shut. Which ultimately feeds his ego and control and keeps every one in a state of panic.

The paternity test is a red herring - he would of found anything to cling on to”

I completely agree with this. The 1 in 5 kid conversation happened before they even had 5 kids. It’s a conversation I’ve had at the dinner table with my brother and husband. It’s just a normal headline that gets discussed by families. The fact he still remembers it and uses it at leverage all these years later is disturbing.
Coercive control is a relatively “new” crime in terms of its publicity and general knowledge of the signs. I worked for DV charity pre-children and this isolation and control would definitely concern me if it was my sister. It’s not enough to contact the police but it’s definitely something the sister should keep an eye on and prepare for.

This is so weird. If some details were different you could be one of my sisters talking about the other as this situation has pretty much just happened.

DS1's partner is a walking prick. Cannot stand him. And I would definitely say he's controlling.

DS2 has been banned from their house. She's convinced it's because of his control and abuse. And it might be to some extent.

However, with the best will in the world she is an interfering busybody who constantly interferes in people's lives and always has an opinion on everything and never ever thinks she's in the wrong.

For example:

Telling a father of five that one in five children aren't biologically related to their fathers is a shitty thing to say to someone.

Getting a drive through treat for two of five children in the same family is shitty.

Getting a drive through for kids when their mother has specifically said they're about to get their dinner is shitty.

Deciding for someone else's children that what you want to feed them is no different to what their own mother wants to feed them is shitty.

From the other side of the coin, if a dh said "I want us to work but your sister who acts in the ways above can't be a part of our family life" then there are plenty of people who would put their children's father ahead of an interfering sister.

He probably is a controlling, abusive arsehole. But that doesn't mean that you're covered in glory, either. I'd say the pair of you have acted quite twat-like at times.

I feel sorry for your sister.