DP and money - yawn warning

[Picassosfriend]

So, I'll try and be as succinct as possible. When I met DP I was completely unaware that he had a bad gambling habit. I had a very good job and my own house and he moved in with me when I got pregnant. After holding down a hugely stressful demanding job, keeping the family afloat money-wise and having a second child, I found out that DP was a gambler. I paid off over £30,000 of his debts when I sold my house and we moved to a bigger place. We were married by this stage, but I had to buy the new house in my name as his credit was dreadful. Two years later, I found out that he had run-up another £32,000 in gambling debts. Made him join gamblers anonymous as a condition of us staying together and he slowly paid off the debt and got his life back on track. In the meantime, I left my job and set up my own business so that I could be at home for the children. This was my choice. Problem is, I have always had to manage the family money, as if we need anything it always seems to be me that has to save up for it out of my money. If I query this, DP makes out that I am a nag. He is a man child who puts on a good front of being successful to outsiders (on the back of the lifestyle my house has provided us with). We don't really discuss money as DP gets very defensive as says that I am obsessed with money. This isn't true. I want to safeguard my families future and not waste it on random frivolous spending that DP seems to enjoy. Most of the furniture/household items have been purchased by me. Anyway, on payday I asked DP how much he as paid this month. As usual he joked around and wouldn't tell me. I asked him to show me on his phone and said other couples discuss finances. In the end he showed me. I scrolled down his purchases and saw that he had spend £40 on the lottery in the past few weeks. I was furious. Isn't this gambling - and such a waste of money. We had words and I told him to delete the direct debits for that he has apparently set-up. Am I being unreasonable? Just for clarity, he gives me a set amount each months towards the bills and food, but has no interest in using the rest of his money for household items/repairs etc.

How can you know what he is contributing is fair if you dont know his salary? Yanbu about that. Ask for a contribution to a savings account for repairs and furniture then manage it as you do the other finances.

Other than ensuring fair contribution and reassurance he is not gambling I think his money is his business though. Lottery is gambling and I would not be happy given track record.

Often women are in an insecure position by not marrying the father of their children. In this case I'd worry that the opposite is true. Never marry someone you wouldn't go into business with.

I think you need some good legal advice and to secure you and your children's futures.

When he said you are obsessed with money I hope you said something like
"Only because I have to be you useless using cocklodging prick, you weren't calling me obsessed when you were sponging £62k off me and living off my wages, give me your key and off you fuck", that would have been my reply, not that i'd have paid the first £30k mind

No you are not being unreasonable to want to know how much your husband earns and what he spends his money on. Especially given his track record.
I had an exh who kept his money in his own account and racked up massive debts on wasteful expenses I had no knowledge of and we both had to pay off. It's not on.
Now have a joint account and anything non essential (over £100) we ask each other if it's ok to buy (check we can afford it).

Is he still attending GA (or was he before lockdown?). Can you trust if he ever was? I know someone who has been in GA for a long time. The lottery is definitely gambling, he doesn't even enter raffles, play bingo etc. And one of the first things they get you to do is share access to your finances with a significant other so that they can check you don't relapse.

I don't think it's necessarily the gambling that is an issue, I think it's the lack of respect he has for you. The fact that you are making all the significant financial purchases is a no for me.

He needs to be contributing more than just his share of the bills. He needs to contribute to savings and living costs, too.

CalmdownJanet has it absolutely spot on. This blood-sucking twat is going to bleed you dry. Why on earth haven't you kicked him out already? I could not stand the stress, the lies and the utter selfishness that he brings to your life. A horrible way to live and definitely not what you want your children to consider normal.

Personally I think you are insane staying with him. He will never change and will eventually run you to the ground dry like my ex did. I've gone from being mortgage free at 40, having a fantastic pension and the prospect of an early retirement and some fun around that to divorce, having a large mortgage again at 59, working until I'm 70, losing most of my pension and not having anything to look forward to.
Mark my words this will be you if you don't get rid.
I had hidden bills, credit cards and debts racked up all over the place and 2 years after our divorce leaving him with no debts he has racked up £50k from living the high life and wants to come back. Like hell he's ever coming back.
Dump this fool.

Why are you with him?

How can you not have known. There must have been signs before you had another child and married him. I wouldn’t even entertain staying with someone like this. He’ll never change and he’ll end up bankrupting you.

OP.. he knows you will pay it off.. so why would he bother telling you what he's spending.... you're his piggy bank safety net.... he has fun with his earned money and you Pay the debts off with yours...

I'd have left on learning there was a £30K debt...the first time

What CalmdownJanet said. Legend.

The only way you are being unreasonable is by staying with him. Sorry I'm not always on the 'ltb' brigade and at first I thought oh no must be hard for him with an addiction. But the more i read the angrier I got on your behalf. He doesnt see it as his job to contribute to family finances. He is happy for you to have that responsibility. After you bailed him out to the tune of £30k he spends another £30k but the worst part is, he isnt even sorry. He should have been grovelling after the first time and giving you complete control of his money, with you giving him back weekly spending money if he can't control it.

The worst part of this is his attitude and hes not even ashamed or thinks there is anything wrong with him spending thr money on himself while you spend your money on family. And blames you for nagging.

The fact you have to even ask if you've been unreasonable in wanting to discuss finances with him shows how beaten down you are by it all.

I'm sorry but he isn't going to change. He is addicted to gambling and spending. He may be able to control it at times but not easily, and it will always be there. And if he isnt going to admit this and give you complete control then I don't think you can carry on in this relationship wondering when not if he will do it all again.

Given the circumstances, YANBU regarding sight of earnings and spend and, as you asked, I've seen the UK National Lottery as a concern for a compulsive gambler. I'd recognise the 'being a nag' or 'boring' as the equivalent of gas lighting or consciously or sub-consciously creating the space to allow a relapse.

Giving you a set amount for bills and food is what young people do when they first start work and live with their parents. They’ve no interest in contributing to a broken washing machine or replacing the kitchen floor. Their money is theirs.

Your relationship with your DH is just like that.

I couldn’t live like this and you know, don’t you, that there will be another huge debt at some point. It’s not an if but a when.

Sorry.

I couldn't live like that.

You will never be able to fully trust him so you need to come to terms with that or separate.

I had a similar issue ( not gambling just stupid spending behaviour that got out of hand ) and we only got through it because I have complete sight of all the spending except a few hundred pounds a month. It is infuriating but it is what it is. You need to ask for the same.

I must say the second time he did it would have been the end for me though, I cant believe you bailed him out again!

YANBU at all. But this isn’t going to be solved by you knowing what he earns and what he spends it on. You are on completely different pages financially. I couldn’t be with someone who had for example completely different morals to me - and in the same way I couldn’t be with someone who’s financial views and priorities were so different to my own. So I guess the question is how much you’re prepared to live with and compromise on all this. Sorry op, it’s a rubbish situation.

Obsessed with money? If it wasn’t for you he’d probably be out on the streets by now. Do you really want to spend the next 50 years living like this? He is an addict. Always will be. The money you keep bailing him out with is the money taken away from your children’s future. Who matters to you more? Your shitty DH or your DC?

My DH and I share how much we earn with each other. To the penny. Partly so that we can plan financially and partly because, well it makes sense when married!

We have a spreadsheet that adds up very single expense and include entries for variable expenses (car repairs/house repairs/gifts etc) that's is averaged so that we have some idea of what to expanse. (We manage the variables on a separate spreadsheet updating the averages frequently)

We then each pay a pro rata sum into our joint account to cover all these household, family, life expenses.

Crucially we work it so that we each have the same disposable income.

We try and make sure we're paying into our pensions (he has a brilliant one with work) and saving.

But our disposable income is our own. No questions asked. It means we can buy each other gifts or take each other out to dinner.

DH buys clothes and booze. I buy gadgets. But we have no need to comment on what we each spend because we cover all life expenses jointly.

Could something like that work for you? You increase his contribution to whole life expenses, and his disposable income is his to spend as he sees fit? Gambling not withstanding though.

I have a syndicate lottery DD that comes out of my account. It fluctuates depending on weeks in month but varies from c£28 to c£36.

In any event I think it's usual for married couples to know roughly what each other earns. And if you don't, you should.

I think in a way you are unreasonable to want to know what he spends his money on. He's an adult. He can earn and spend his money on whatever he wants.

But it sounds like what you haven't done is set up an expectation from the start that family expenses are equitably shared and that he needs to carry his load. My dh is self-employed. I honestly have absolutely no idea how much he earns every month (though I could guess within about 10K give or take what he makes annually - obviously, it changes constantly). I also have absolutely no idea what he spends money on. I don't really think it's any of my business.

The difference is that we pay into a joint account based on our incomes and we cover our family expenses. It sounds like you've allowed him to mistreat you and take advantage of you all this time and you've covered for him and scooped him up every time he's screwed up. So he knows it's okay to keep on doing it. Unfortunately, in a divorce, you'll be the one who gets screwed over, but this is no way to live the rest of your life and I'd accept the financial loss just to be done with this once and for all.

He sounds like a teenager with his first pay packet! Honest to God hes never going to change by the sounds of it.Money issues cause so much trouble in R/L .I would tell him he needs to get his act together .Otherwise its over .That will be about September and he then moves out!

How did he react when you talked about the lottery? That is gambling and he has clearly relapsed - is he going to discuss that with his sponsor? Does he have one?

In a way I do not know why I'm asking because he sounds, like most people have pointed out, that he has little respect or appreciation for you, or any desire to be equal partners and create a life together. You stopped him being bankrupt and gave him TWO second chances both as a couple and as an individual (the chance to start again without bankruptcy/the enormous strain of debt) and he treats you with such disdain? Of course I would hate it if a partner always used my previous shortcomings against me (I have many) as that is an awful way to live but to not be able to have adult conversations about your marital finances is the bare minimum I would expect from any partner, but even more so from a gambling addict.

In the situation with your DH where he is a gambler YANBU. However, we get paid separately, put what we need into the joint account (mortgage, house running expenses, cars, kids stuff etc) and then we save into our own pots (as well as joint) and have our own disposable income. So, theoretically DP or I could spend money on the lottery each month or whatever we want and the other not know - I will sometimes buy a ticket, perhaps say twice a month and my DP wouldn't know (although obviously I don't deliberately not tell him). I hope that answers your question.

However, in your case I would be very scared that he get me into debt, I have to say the very excessive gambling woud be a complete deal breaker for me as I couldn't trust someone or feel secure. I would worry he'd run up debt again or take out credit, or increase the mortgage or similar.