RFU reviewing use of slave song Swing Low, Sweet Chariot

[GimmeAy]

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53096584

Anyone recall this lively but good-natured discussion from earlier in the year? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3817800-Is-the-chosen-English-rugby-anthem-appropriate-do-you-think?pg=1

What do we all think now given the shift in attitudes to slavery and things associated with slavery? I think the attitude back in February was that it was ok, because it was initially sung in the context of rugby by a black player. BBC reporting that that player's nickname was Chariot which is why he sang it.

AIBU to be interested in whether our views have changed at all?

I think perhaps going forwards English fans should spend entire matches on their knees to apologise for, erm, well just everything.

I think perhaps going forwards English fans should spend entire matches on their knees to apologise for, erm, well just everything. Ireland has had them on their knees for the better part of a lot of matches in recent times.

What is CoF @derxa?

*Not the Brits. You mean the English. You appear to use the words interchangeably which they very much aren't.

And you come across as a xenophobic person yourself. Thick twice about the British/English.

Frankly I'm assuming your interest in taking the song away is more about your support for your team than it is concern about appropriation.

You haven't answered any of the intelligent, considered posters on this thread. I vote GF.*

Absolutely this. Goady bollocks.

CoF is sung goadily when England are winning.

No it isn't. That is the Vangelis anthem to the film, mainly about a Scottish runner.

I've no issue with Scottish or Welsh. In fact, I'd happily cheer either of them on if Ireland is out. I don't particularly like playing or most especially losing to the English however. Mainly because of their arrogant behaviour in victory. And because we always want to get one over on them. Why? Let me think.......? Em, nope - can't think why - must be a xenophobe. Most countries have an arch rival. Who do the Welsh most hate losing to? Or the Scottish?

The most magnanimous in victory are NZ. Though they can afford to be as it happens so rarely that they lose!!

Ireland has had them on their knees for the better part of a lot of matches in recent times

Feb 2020... 24-12 to England
Aug 2019 ... 57-15 to England
Feb 2019... 32-20 to England

Stop now, you're embarrassing yourself.

Stonerosie67 We fairly had them on their knees in the Six Nations final in 2018 when we beat them 24-16 I think at Twickenham, on St. Patrick's Day, winning the Triple Crown, the Grand Slam and the Six Nations - that was my favourite day ever!!! London was a sea of green that day! Must have been very humiliating to lose to the little old Oirish leprechauns at home...........

We also like to see them on their knees at the mercy of other countries

Given that Ireland (for rugby) has a population of 6.6 million and that England has 56 million to choose from, I think it's fair to say that it's a hollow victory when they beat smaller nations. Ireland's main sports are Gaelic football and hurling, with soccer and rugby coming in 2nd and 3rd in terms of popularity, I would say Ireland punches well above its weight when it beats the wonderful England. NZ has a comparable pop to Ireland, though rugby is what they're reared on as kids.

One thing that I'll admit Ireland are shite at is soccer though........ Please don't mention soccer.

Under Joe Schmidt we did well until this last year. Can't even think of the name of who we have now. And we lost to England in our 6 nations game - then of course Covid hit.

Brits sing Swing Low Sweet Chariot
I'm with MrsTP on the goading.
Not all Brits are English. It's the crowd that sing the song not the team. I'd put money on half the crowd only knowing the chorus.
Martin Offiah played both RU and RL and he certainly didn't start using it. It may have been used by the crowd about him.

Andy Farrell's the Irish coach. Father of Owen. Ex RL player.

I don’t know many English, Welsh, Scottish or indeed Irish people who call football ‘soccer’ 🤔

Soccer is mostly used in America so I call GF plus the suggestion that rugby union doesn’t have many black players suggests OP knows very little about rugby e.g like there are 2 codes rugby union & rugby league

As for swing low - it probably should go but idk how you enforce it

PastMyBestBeforeDate Well he doesn't appear to be any great shakes so far. Thanks for telling me. Could have googled of course. Where's he from?

If banned at Rugby, then would it also be banned at church, weddings, school plays? Not convinced. What hymns would be left if we banned all those written by people who also had any horrible opinions?

does any adult with capacity exist ever that hasn't held at least one unpleasant opinion?

Irish differentiate soccer from Gaelic as we generally call Gaelic Football - football. We call soccer, soccer.

Nobody that I know of is mentioning banning it afaik - just questioning the appropriateness of it I suppose, given the current climate. As most people don't seem to have a notion as to what it's about though, I'll give the English a pass - bless them.

To the PP who stated that Swing Low is about death - I'd argue that it's a song about emancipation from slavery as, the only way to be emancipated at the time it was written was by dying. Given that it's believed to have been written by a slave would reinforce that notion. I read it as a prayer for freedom, which could only be achieved in death. It's welcoming death/freedom from slavery.

Let me get this straight.

The song was written to celebrate the end of slavery.

it was a favourite song of civil rights campaigners.

It's obviously a bittersweet but upbeat tune (or will I offend people by saying that, too).

It encourages the crowd. It says nothing horrible (directly).

But some people assume it's a song about slavery being an ok condition.

So because SOME people totally misunderstand the song, it might be offensive to sing.

Neah, I give up. All logic lost.

In the US of course, football refers to American football. A different ball game entirely to soccer. Unless you're speaking among Brits, (yes, I mean the collective Brits), you need to specify soccer.

So really OP, you don’t like the English or their rugby team and this thread is an opportunity to have a pop at them.

European countries when translating to English, call soccer, soccer. Everyone but Brits refer to soccer as soccer in English. The only people who refer to it as football in the English language (that I'm aware of) are Brits (yes - again - the collective Brits).

So really OP, you don’t like the English or their rugby team and this thread is an opportunity to have a pop at them.

Not entirely accurate. I dislike losing to England in any sport - particularly rugby as it's my favourite. I've nothing against the English rugby team - moreso the insufferable fans. Yes, I'll take any opportunity to have a pop at the English - why wouldn't I? They've been taking actual pops at the Irish for 800 years.