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AIBU?

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RFU reviewing use of slave song Swing Low, Sweet Chariot

308 replies

GimmeAy · 19/06/2020 09:48

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53096584

Anyone recall this lively but good-natured discussion from earlier in the year? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3817800-Is-the-chosen-English-rugby-anthem-appropriate-do-you-think?pg=1

What do we all think now given the shift in attitudes to slavery and things associated with slavery? I think the attitude back in February was that it was ok, because it was initially sung in the context of rugby by a black player. BBC reporting that that player's nickname was Chariot which is why he sang it.

AIBU to be interested in whether our views have changed at all?

OP posts:
GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:17

Personally, as a very unfit smoker, I felt I should have been allowed to disobey the offside rule in rugby. Grin Only fair? Even if you put me 2 metres from the try line, one of my male counterparts would have ran the length of the pitch to score a try in the time it took me to fuster with the ball and get it over the line.

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PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 20/06/2020 13:17

@GimmeAy

My best friend is Portuguese - she always calls it football as does my friend from Hungary

I'm guessing they live in the UK though? Not in Portugal or Hungary? So they're using the term most used in the UK?

The term "football" is used in most languages (either borrowed from English, or as a direct translation).
RFU reviewing use of slave song Swing Low, Sweet Chariot
GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:21

Ye - but most English speaking countries have their own versions of Football - Ireland, US, Australia but I'm sure there are more? And most other countries learn The Queen's English which is obviously English, English.

OP posts:
GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:23

Well - to me it's soccer or footy. Football could be anything. Then again, it's not something that comes into my vocab too often as I have as much interest in it as I have in watching paint dry. Perhaps if our team wasn't so shite I might call it something, but I'll do my best to call it football from now on - when in Rome and all that.

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PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 20/06/2020 13:27

I was refuting that Kit's friends say "football" because they're in England - football is used instead of soccer in most other languages.

I want taking about other English-speaking countries. Yes, if they lived in America they'd probably call it soccer, but it wouldn't change the fact that in their mother tongue the word would be closer etymologically to "football".

PolkadotsAndMoonbeams · 20/06/2020 13:28

*wasn't talking

Most people would understand either of course, and it would issuance be easy enough to know in context anyway. Smile

Shelby2010 · 20/06/2020 13:29

You’re a racist GF.

And I don’t even like rugby.

SimonJT · 20/06/2020 13:30

@GimmeAy

European countries when translating to English, call soccer, soccer. Everyone but Brits refer to soccer as soccer in English. The only people who refer to it as football in the English language (that I'm aware of) are Brits (yes - again - the collective Brits).
Most european countries don’t use the word soccer, most use football. Very few non-european countries use the word soccer outside the Americas and Southern Africa.
GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:31

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/06/2020 13:33

Once upon a time some boys were playing with a ball.

Other boys elsewhere also played with a ball.

Someone had the bright idea of having a competition and the boys lined up in their teams ready to play.

Boys, boys, teachers said, we will play the game in 2 parts. The first part we will play by team As rules and the second by the rules of team B. Everyone was happy, that was fair.

All across England, for yes, that is where we are, boys played lots of different games with balls. Some only used their feet and some used their hands too. They all played against each other, learning each other's rules.

  • here we must ignore the challenges and opportunities raised by the class system, trains, communications and all sorts of other technological advances, for that would take far too long.

Soon some boys decider they didn't want to play with the ball in hand, others that they really did.

Those that did wrote down some rules and called it Rugby Football, or Rugger.

The others, who may not have been quite so we'll off, had to go to work, maybe played for their employer, couldn't afford injury time etc, called their game Association Football, or Soccer.

Oh how they loved words that ended in -er. Such fun!

Both games went all over the world. In some places they were added to local games, in others they were kept separate and loved for themselves. Many places had their own games of football but love Rugger and Soccer too.

Many years passed. And back in England their was some consternation. Why is our lively original game of football being relegated to a second rate game? You nasty colonies have stolen The Beautiful Game's name!! We won't play any more. Down wiv soccer, we don't like -er words so much any more... and other daft ideas!

So England now also plays football, but ours is the real and original football, so nah!!

And rugby? I hear you ask. Well, those mainly Northern working class men, who couldn't afford injuries, had their own rules, they called it League. The other boys called theirs Union, for many reasons.

Interestingly when Rugger is played against other nations, mainly Northern against Southern hemisphere, they still have a chat to decide which bits of whose rules they will play by.

And that is, allowing for the most incredible simplification, is why football is soccer and also is not!

Stonerosie67 · 20/06/2020 13:36

GimmeAy was a total GF on the other thread about this, the one she helpfully posted in her OP, but she went by the name of NothjngWrong on that one, and she's a boring GF on this one too.

I've asked you several times on this thread if you had name changed and you ignored me, but as I said, your anti-English sentiments and ridiculous ramblings are, sadly, all too familiar. And monotonous.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/06/2020 13:37

And no. Again I asked why, why does that rule exist? Off side is to prevent goal hanging. That's all!

The ruling has been more and less complicated over the years, depending on changes is other rules, fitness levels and changes in strategy.

But the reason it exists is to leave the goal open, with just one main defender, against one main attacker.

GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:39

@Stonerosie67 Personal attacks are not allowed. I'm not the OP of the thread I posted in my OP as that's what you appear to be implying. I was a participator in the thread however. Does it bother you that I don't revere the English as I'm not actually English?

OP posts:
Toilenstripes · 20/06/2020 13:40

As an American I was shocked when I moved to England and heard it being sung during rugby matches. “You’ve got to be kidding me!”

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/06/2020 13:42

@GimmeAy

Ye - but most English speaking countries have their own versions of Football - Ireland, US, Australia but I'm sure there are more? And most other countries learn The Queen's English which is obviously English, English.
When I was in East Africa, in several English speaking countries (and some French) everyone called it football. Do you just mean majority white English speaking countries? Seems odd for someone sooooooo concerned about racism and appropriation. Or are you now willing to admit you were using this issue to beat the 'Brits' English.

It actually really distasteful. Trying use other people's very serious concerns to further your own very petty ones.

Fifthtimelucky · 20/06/2020 13:43

I think the meaning of 'football' has changed over time. People of my father's generation referred to 'Association football' or 'Rugby football'. As a young child (1960s) I remember someone asking my father if he liked football and he asked which one they meant.

I find it interesting that many rugby clubs seem to have dropped the word 'football' from their titles. They used to be known as X Rugby Football Club (not just X Rugby Club). I understand that years ago rugby clubs didn't even have the word 'rugby' included in their titles. They were eg Bath Football Club and Saracens Football Club.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/06/2020 13:43

Revere!???!!!

What on Earth are you blathering about?

You set up a discussion you can't engage in because some of us know the subject. You can't just throw out your ignorant blathering, pretending you know what you are talking about, and not be exposed as a charlatan.

Identifying your lack of knowledge isn't a personal attack! It's the natural consequence of being a bulshitter with an agenda!!!

GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:44

This reply has been deleted

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CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/06/2020 13:45

And thar she blows.....

Stonerosie67 · 20/06/2020 13:46

You say personal attacks are not allowed...you've just called another poster an ignorance!
Are you drunk????

Stonerosie67 · 20/06/2020 13:47

Ha, ignoramus, even! Blame auto-correct, not liquor...

GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:49

*You set up a discussion you can't engage in because some of us know the subject. You can't just throw out your ignorant blathering, pretending you know what you are talking about, and not be exposed as a charlatan.

Identifying your lack of knowledge isn't a personal attack! It's the natural consequence of being a bulshitter with an agenda!!!*

My OP is about a news story questioning the appropriateness of a black slave song being used as a sports song by the English. At no point have I ever claimed to be an expert on slavery nor the English nor their use of the song.

The thread has devolved to cover soccer/linguistics/personal attacks/abuse/collective ganging up in an attempt to discredit me, as nobody could discredit me on the substance of the thread or discussion.

But keep it up - it's water off a duck's back. Enough posters have agreed that they cannot fathom why the English would pick such a song to content me that I'm not alone in my thoughts.

OP posts:
GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:53

As an American I was shocked when I moved to England and heard it being sung during rugby matches. “You’ve got to be kidding me!”

Similar reaction from myself! But prepare to be eaten alive @Toilenstripes

OP posts:
CuriousaboutSamphire · 20/06/2020 13:53

Devolved?

You mean those bits where you claimed to know, and then not to know about the Farrell's etc?

Yes, you helped evolve, develop, broaden the thread. It was you who brought up Offside! I just followed your train of thought.

Bless!

GimmeAy · 20/06/2020 13:54

Ha, ignoramus, even! Blame auto-correct, not liquor...

Grin Grin Wink Wink

On the gin already? Gin

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