RFU reviewing use of slave song Swing Low, Sweet Chariot

[GimmeAy]

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/53096584

Anyone recall this lively but good-natured discussion from earlier in the year? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3817800-Is-the-chosen-English-rugby-anthem-appropriate-do-you-think?pg=1

What do we all think now given the shift in attitudes to slavery and things associated with slavery? I think the attitude back in February was that it was ok, because it was initially sung in the context of rugby by a black player. BBC reporting that that player's nickname was Chariot which is why he sang it.

AIBU to be interested in whether our views have changed at all?

Danny Cipriani - he’s played lots for England - not sure if he still plays?

I'm sure it's earlier than 1988. I remember it being sung by rugby players when I was at Uni in the early 1980s. Maybe a general rugby song rather than England.

While they're reviewing this, can they review it's national anthem. That's the UK national anthem, not the English one. Every other UK country has its own.

Notreallyhappy I seem to recall that was brought up on the old thread too - that England doesn't have a national anthem of its own.

It,s a gospel song, but if you listen to the lyrics it does not mention colour/race so anyone can sing it.

It doesn't refer to sport or England or rugby though june2007. It's an odd choice.

It's going to be discussed on ITV lunchtime news right now too.

Seriously, this is getting stupid now.

I don't profess to know anything about rugby, but I do know about sports fans, being one myself, and this campaign is going nowhere.

Oh for God's sake get over yourselves. Haven't we got enough to worry about at the moment? Ban 'Rule Brittania' because it glorifies British imperialism? Ban 'Abide with me' because it's about approaching death and might upset the depressed? Ban 'Flower of Scotland because it dishonours the deaths of English soldiers killed at Bannockburn in 1314? Those who wish to be affronted will find a way

so are you going to ban amazing grace? It was written by reformed slave trader?
to me 3 things count
first how does the singing of the song affect the player (most important!)
second what is the intent of the singers (is it meant as a positive supportive action or is it derogatory or is it misinformed & outdated?)
& does it upset anybody is it out dated or is the reaction by RU/others over active pc?
It should be discussed but preferably by the people it concerns most
However read the origin of the song - it taught me quite a lot I didn't know!

Good luck trying to get that song stopped at Twickenham.
OP, have you name changed?

So are they going to ban all blues music and black gospel because of their similar origins?

The problem with this kind of campaign is that it does nothing to address access and equality in sports. It doesn't stop racism, it doesn't change minds. It's a really cheap and easy way to virtue signal while doing nothing. And it causes some people to dig their heels in and express casual racism that they would otherwise keep to themselves. The debate becomes about symbols and signs rather than causes and effects.

I'm not a rugby expert but I'll bet RFU needs to look at a lot of other, more expensive and important, aspects of racism in sports but this is a cheap and easy 'look we're trying'.

All of these things, statues, songs, so called cultural appropriation are just distractions. Focusing solely of individual groups who are disadvantaged is divide and rule tactics.

What we need is a more equal
Society for everyone, and that isn’t going to be achieved by going round banning every song which might upset someone.

@GaraMedouar

Danny Cipriani - he’s played lots for England - not sure if he still plays?

Still plays, most recently at Gloucester.

I don't see how they will be able to stop a whole crowd from singing it. Slightly stereotyping, but a lot of English rugby fans are fairly un-PC, and aren't going to want to change a long standing habit to please woke activists.

It all just makes me so bloody sad.

I love Trevor Phillips. The man speaks so much sense.

Nobody owns a song ...

Well unless you have the copyright obvs.

@Anamechanged

Martin Offiah never played rugby union for England - he was a rugby league player.

He played both

I was quickly scrolling through and clocked that as ‘Mariah Carey never played rugby union...’ (she was on my playlist earlier)

@Ellmau

So are they going to ban all blues music and black gospel because of their similar origins?

That’s what DH says this morning when it was on R4. He liked Dylan, Springsteen - that type of bluesy rock with roots in black music. Does that mean jazz too?

My understanding is that it's a song inspired by the Underground Railroad that helped people escape from slavery and was written by a Choctaw Native American (Wikipedia). It's not glorifying slavery. It wasn't sung by slaves. It's an easy song musically and lyrically which is why it's caught on. I don't see the problem 🤷🏻‍♀️

Not quite Doris — he was a freed slave who'd been owned by a Choctaw American Indian.

they need to ban 'flower of Scotland ' then as its all about giving the English a bollocking

Rugger players used to sing it with rude gestures in the 60s.

Pointless trying to ban it because people will sing it just because they can.