Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

309 replies

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 11:17

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

OP posts:
Mumratheevergiving · 18/06/2020 21:52

yes stop with the faux outrage/confusion which implies that if white people won't do it then they must be racist. Because that's what you're implying isn't it

No. If you don't see it as a positive gesture don't do it. Just as people who do see taking the knee as a positive gesture should be able to do so.

YgritteSnow · 18/06/2020 21:53

It's about what it represents as a gesture of solidarity.

To you and other people. Not to me and plenty of others. I'm perfectly accepting of your stance and demand no explanation. Why are you so confused by and requesting an explanation for mine?

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 21:55

To you and other people. Not to me and plenty of others

Why are you so confused by and requesting an explanation for mine

What do you see it as then?

OP posts:
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 18/06/2020 21:56

[quote chomalungma]I won't kneel to anyone, for any reason and I wouldn't expect anyone to kneel to me for any reason, and that is an excellent and perfectly sufficient explanation of why I won't kneel

This is not about kneeling 'to anyone'. There are no people demanding you kneel to them.

It's about what it represents as a gesture of solidarity.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/18/raab-betrays-his-ignorance-of-the-origin-and-meaning-of-taking-a-knee[/quote]
No it's about people demanding that we do it and explain ourselves if we don't. The minute someone tells me to do something, unless they have authority behind that order, it's a big NO from me.

I'll do what I choose to do, not what you tell me to do. I'm not kneeling to support a far left organisation whose principles I disagree with. Isn't freedom of political expression a human right?

Did you just choose to ignore parallax80 explanation op? You think you're right to be forcing people into disclosing trauma like that do you?

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 21:58

I'm not kneeling to support a far left organisation whose principles I disagree with

Depends if you see it as support for the views of some people in BLM or if you see it as a support for anti-racism?

OP posts:
endlessginandtonic · 18/06/2020 21:58

They were kneeling during the national anthem in front of the national flag.
They weren't kneeling at thin air for no particular reason.

We chose to kneel because it’s a respectful gesture.

The words of one of the initial kneelers, Eric Reid.

It becomes a much more empty gesture without the flag or national anthem.

It also doesn't address that BLM is a specific protest group whose aims would be in conflict with many people who also believed in an anti racist approach.

People should be completely free to kneel or not kneel without pressure either way.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 18/06/2020 22:00

@chomalungma

I'm not kneeling to support a far left organisation whose principles I disagree with

Depends if you see it as support for the views of some people in BLM or if you see it as a support for anti-racism?

BLM the organisation have made it about supporting them, so no.

Why are you not responding to parallax comment? Why would you just ignore her?

echt · 18/06/2020 22:01

How embarrassingly thick was Raab?

It reminded me of teaching Orwell's "Nineteen Eight-Four" and the many students who thought he got his Big Brother idea from the TV show. :o
At least they had youth as some kind of excuse.

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 22:01

The minute someone tells me to do something, unless they have authority behind that order, it's a big NO from me

No one is telling you to do anything. There are no orders.

Do you think that taking the knee would be seen as supporting BLM and you don't want to be seen to supporting what you see as a far left organisation?

Maybe some people would see it as you supporting anti-racism?

OP posts:
echt · 18/06/2020 22:01

Eighty: Grr.

YgritteSnow · 18/06/2020 22:03

What do you see it as then?

What do you mean? I've explained to you.

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 22:04

BLM the organisation have made it about supporting them, so no

I see it as supporting anti-racism.

BLM is also a range of people with a range of views. Not a single organisation.

OP posts:
Wizadorawobble · 18/06/2020 22:06

The Black power fist in the air is a much better and powerful symbol IMO, no kneeling to a country/flag that has shit all over you.

I would expect the foreign secretary basic stuff that's going on though.

Wizadorawobble · 18/06/2020 22:07

to know*^

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 22:07

What do you mean? I've explained to you

Not really. You seemed to confused 'being told to kneel to someone' with 'taking a knee'.

There is a big difference between being told to kneel in front of someone and taking a knee in a gesture of solidarity.

OP posts:
TheRealMcKenna · 18/06/2020 22:08

*Do you think that taking the knee would be seen as supporting BLM and you don't want to be seen to supporting what you see as a far left organisation?

Maybe some people would see it as you supporting anti-racism?*

I see it as showing support for BLM - an organisation whose aims I cannot support.

I am not willing to sacrifice my integrity and support an organisation I do not believe would be beneficial to anyone just so other people ‘accept’ that I am not racist.

If that’s not good enough an explanation for you, fine.

You asked why anyone would object to taking the knee and you have been given valid reasons on several occasions. The fact that you do not seem willing to accept them suggests to me that you are part of the ‘anyone who doesn’t support this movement must be racist’.

YgritteSnow · 18/06/2020 22:08

I see your photo that you posted and draw your attention to this one that was posted earlier in the thread. Are they the same do you think?

to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee
InOutofmymind · 18/06/2020 22:10

I think Raab like Johnson or Trump (any populist) plays to their base, BLM supporters are less likely to be Tory voters.

He mocked the BLM movement because that is what a lot on the right will or will want to do.

Squirrel134 · 18/06/2020 22:10

TheMarzipanDildo Thu 18-Jun-20 16:08:09
I can’t believe this thread Shock
Context is everything. Clearly this is a black power statement not a fucking show of subservience. It doesn’t really matter that the original taking of the knee happened in America because it means more than that now.
Some people seem to be quite wilfully thick on the subject of BLM.

I popped back into the thread, and also find it weird some posters/people are focussing on their being asked to 'take the knee' nobody is asking you to, or telling you too. No one is bullying or forcing you to act. You do what you want, but do not belittle the peaceful actions of those who choose to protest in this way or show their solidarity.

Kneeling is not only a sign of subservience and oppression; it is also a sign of respect, humility and honour. But, it is not the only way to show respect. Using appropriate language, hearing and not just telling, treating others like you would hope others would treat you. Being emotionally aware that everyone has feelings, and may feel strongly about past hurts.

Have any of you 'I won't do it lot'? ever been on any kind of protest march, some protestors get passionate and shout, some get angry, push & shove. Others, are just there - being present is enough; & there are those who just sign petitions or write letters.

I'd like to believe any policeman/woman who chooses do engage in this action of solidarity, by their personal choice. There are police who joined up to uphold justice and maintain law for all citizens. Police do not wear uniforms all the time, they have families and friends, so some may have witnessed racist behaviour in their everyday lives, and have strong feelings about it!

Re. the Black Lives Matter movement, I largely agree with the overall aims, cos' I am black British. However, in the UK, it should technically be BAME Lives Matter, as a result of the impact of Empire, remember we are still members of the Commonwealth (which is the empire with its now independent/free nations).
I don't agree with the idea of all these conspiracy theories about defunding the police, black power only etc. These are 'ultra' issues, they are not realistic or practical, & will generally only appeal to rabble-rousers.
Any political party will have parts in its constitution (if they have one) that not all members/supporters agree with - it's called being be human.
BLM is still a movement, I personally don't know any signed up members, just people who broadly agree with its overall aims.

As things move on, hopefully people representatives (? not just goverment appointees & noisebags) will sit down, represent and negotiate a short & long-way forward and framework to enable BAME equality, just treatment & opportunities in society, whilst making the changes palatable for all who will be involved and affected.

It will involve wider and better historical education, about our past, present & hopefully a more equitable or at least society; and this would covers a lot like the division of Africa, Irish Potato Famine, the Scottish crofters, working conditions in the mills and mines. And why people, emigrated to the Americas and Canada.

Any debates, practical discussions and strategies, will have to be country-specific, and maybe probably even county specific in some places. But, hopefully somehow, the Equality Commission will grow better teeth (with a stronger framework), and do what it was set up for, work with the Dept for Education, other key organisations and charities.
Time will tell, for some better co-ordinated changes, as opposed to just knee-jerk reactions.
Peace and Love

YgritteSnow · 18/06/2020 22:11

You asked why anyone would object to taking the knee and you have been given valid reasons on several occasions. The fact that you do not seem willing to accept them suggests to me that you are part of the ‘anyone who doesn’t support this movement must be racist’.

Well yes. It's been veiled and implied throughout the thread though. As the thread goes on with the persistent "not understanding" it's clear what the intention is behind this thread. Not sure it was posted in good faith tbh.

Doggybiccys · 18/06/2020 22:11

@Wizadorawobble - this.

I’ve felt uncomfortable with the take a knee thing - kneeling is subservient and also - kneeling on the neck of George Floyd was part of what killed him. I struggle to see why taking the knee is the best we can do.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 18/06/2020 22:11

@chomalungma

BLM the organisation have made it about supporting them, so no

I see it as supporting anti-racism.

BLM is also a range of people with a range of views. Not a single organisation.

There is an organisation called BLM. I fundamentally disagree with some of their assertions, so, taking a knee has come to signify support for that organisation.

You do you. You can kneel whenever you want. I'm not going to and no one should be pressured into doing it, coerced into doing it, bullied into doing it.

Why are you ignoring the pp reason for not doing it? Why are you ignoring the fact that people have very real intense reasons for not doing it?

We don't live in a dictatorship where you get to demand that we do as you say. We are freedom of expression - I don't have to do as you say, or justify my reasons.

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 22:12

Are they the same do you think

A nice picture - showing solidarity. Maybe you see different?

I see it as showing support for BLM - an organisation whose aims I cannot support

OP posts:
YgritteSnow · 18/06/2020 22:12

You do what you want, but do not belittle the peaceful actions of those who choose to protest in this way or show their solidarity.

Who has done this anywhere on this thread?

chomalungma · 18/06/2020 22:14

There is an organisation called BLM. I fundamentally disagree with some of their assertions, so, taking a knee has come to signify support for that organisatio

I wonder how many of the people who are taking a knee are showing support for the aims of BLM though?

And how many are showing it as general support for anti-racism?

I know that if I took a knee, it would be for support for anti-racism.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread