to think the Foreign Secretary / Deputy Prime Minister should know a little bit of the history about Take a knee

[chomalungma]

twitter.com/matthewchampion/status/1273534016570957824

No - it's not from Game of Thrones. Even though he said he didn't know where it came from, maybe it was Game of Thrones.

I know that Colin Kaepernick took a knee during NFL games and this led to massive repercussions with Trump getting involved.

I know now that there is more of a history with Martin Luther King - but it's the recent history I am more aware of.

I do know that it's not Game of Thrones though.

But this is the same guy who didn't know the importance of the Dover - Calais ferry crossing.

I am gobsmacked at this thread.
It is entirely the personal choice of anyone to support the gesture or not BUT
The foreign secretary of a leading power, and ally of the US, saying he thinks maybe people are taking the knee because it's from Game of Thrones.
Then making light of it and says he will only take the knee for the queen and his 'missus'.
There is a global movement, people worldwide are protesting a serious issue, and our foreign secretary when asked about it talks about a TV show and his 'missus' half jokingly.

It is so embarrassing. And PPs say 'well, you can't expect him to know everything' 'he's being diplomatic.'
I have no words.

@Mumratheevergiving posted:

"I don’t think there’s ‘mob bullying’ taking place, has anyone asked or expected you to take the knee Defenbaker?"

Not literally, but there is certainly mounting pressure on white people to show support for the BLM cause and to wholeheartedly endorse everything the BLM protesters do, because anything less than that is construed as racist. There's an attitude of "Either you're with us, or you're against us", with no room for compromise or discussion, just a lot of anger being directed at anyone who doesn't agree with the tactics of the BLM protesters.

YANBU OP.

Very bizarre and idiotic comment from Raab. To say ‘I only kneel for the Queen and my wife’ is very dismissive of BLM and makes fun of it.

In my religion we only bow/kneel to God, but I would kneel in support of BLM because it’s standing up for oppressed people so worth it.

@Defenbaker that’s not true. No one is forcing anyone to speak out or kneel. But equally don’t make idiot comments like Raab’s like I only kneel to my wife etc. Shows a complete lack of understanding of the issues.

What an infuriating thread.

The thread is nothing to do with the rights and wrongs of kneeling, just that it is very surprising that Dominic Raab appeared to have no idea of the origin of it. You'd think anyone who pays any real attention to US politics would know, thus its surprising that our Deputy PM is ignorant of it.

Also OP you can't reassure people that taking the knee doesn't show support for some of the extreme objectives. Just because you've decided it doesn't, it doesn't give you the right or the authority to make this decision or assertion.

I don't know who's advising these idiots. Do they not have researchers who can clear this stuff up for them? Or say, no not DANIEL it's MARCUS...
Do they not read a newspaper, or briefing.
Or perhaps they genuinely just don't care

@Peterbishopssarcasticsmile

Also OP you can't reassure people that taking the knee doesn't show support for some of the extreme objectives. Just because you've decided it doesn't, it doesn't give you the right or the authority to make this decision or assertion.

This sounds very familiar to the discussion about flying the England flag.

People will see what they want to see when they see someone taking the knee.

People may see someone taking the knee and decide that those people support the more extreme views of BLM

Other people may see people taking the knee and decide that they are taking a stand against racism.

I personally would be very surprised to assume that most people taking the knee would be supporters of the extreme views of BLM.

Of course, there are valid reasons for not taking the knee as has been outlined on here. And of course, people have the choice. Just as people have the choice whether to wear a poppy, or to sing the National Anthem.

I am just surprised by people saying they won't take the knee because they see it as an act of submission even though they do support anti-racism. I can see that people don't want to be supporting the extreme views of some BLM activists, there are obvious reasons for health and as expressed by Poppy upthread, but I do struggle to see the "i won't kneel because it's an act of submission' - because that's what is associated with kneeling before God or your new overlord - and I can't see how people can associate that with taking a knee in this context.

"i won't kneel because it's an act of submission' -

Haven't you seen the videos of police officers being shouted at and bullied into kneeling down in front of protesters? They are clearly very uncomfortable and are doing it because they feel that they have to - how is that not an act of submission? It's very different, kneeling facing a baying mob, to kneeling in a large group who are also doing it.

I thought his use of the word "misses" was poor too but as others have said the whole interview was geared to appeal to a certain sector of tory support, i suspect he is well aware of the significance of the gesture.

Anyone see the news article on a sheriff in Minnesota who went armoured up to deal with protestors but then removed his helmet etc engaged with them and when asked to "Walk with us" thats exactly what he did.
Avoided violence and engaged the community.

But that's not you kneeling as an act of submission.
If people are being shouted at to kneel, then that is an issue.

However, if someone decides to kneel as part of a group or individually, then it's not act of submission.

Unless there is some 'invisible force' shouting at you - which is peer pressure.

No one should be forced to do something. No one should be cajoled or hectored into doing something.

Oh - and this thread was started in good faith to question why the Foreign Secretary didn't know about the gesture.

But people wanted to make it about why they wouldn't take the knee and 'agreeing with him' which was not what the thread was originally about.

It's a shame that a gesture of solidarity for anti-racism is now seen by many as act of submission instead.

@chomalungma

But that's not you kneeling as an act of submission. If people are being shouted at to kneel, then that is an issue.

However, if someone decides to kneel as part of a group or individually, then it's not act of submission.

Unless there is some 'invisible force' shouting at you - which is peer pressure.

No one should be forced to do something. No one should be cajoled or hectored into doing something.

I said that I won't kneel because it has come to represent support for the organisation BLM.

I do see others being forced to kneel as an act of submission. It can't be seen as anything else given the circumstances in which they are being compelled to do it.

No one should be cajoled or hectored into doing it, but they are being.

It's a shame that a gesture of solidarity for anti-racism is now seen by many as act of submission instead.

It is a shame, but then protesters should have thought about that before they started bullying people into doing it by screaming at them and trying to shame them into doing it shouldn't they?

But people wanted to make it about why they wouldn't take the knee and 'agreeing with him' which was not what the thread was originally about

I don’t quite see how it went from ‘know the history’ to ‘would you do it’

He should absolutely know the history, but when youve got a pm who says he only found out about the free school meals days after rest of the population what can you do

He should not "take the knee". BLM are a political movement who have adopted a catchy slogan that people cannot disagree with. They have a manifest fgs! Why would a conservative minister kneel for that? The world is going mad.

FYI I care deeply about the inequalities in our society but feel that they would be better addressed directly. Not with virtue signalling acts or removal of statues.

'don’t quite see how it went from ‘know the history’ to ‘would you do it’

Because the op, while saying only Raab's comments were to be discussed, then went on to say this and needed correcting -
'Maybe I am just trying to reassure people that taking a knee is not going to be seen as supporting the extreme views of BLM but as being seen as supporting anti-racism in general'

I don't need reassurance, the op needs to understand why people aren't doing it as well as why Raab said he respected people's decision to do it but he wouldn't.

Oh fair enough getoff didn’t see that

"It is surprising though that Dominic Raab had no idea what its meaning was."
I'm not that surprised people didnt know about it to bd honest. I'd never heard of it till a few weeks ago. It's an American thing so there is probably millions of people never heard of it.
What's the significance of the Dover Calais ferry you mention in your first post?

I also think there could have been a different "action /symbol", as a lot of people struggle to get down on one knee.

'It was Nate Boyer, a white former NFL player and army veteran, who advised Kaepernick to take a knee instead of sitting down. Boyer told National Public Radio: “In my opinions and in my experience, kneeling’s never been in our history really seen as a disrespectful act. I mean, people kneel when they get knighted. You kneel to propose to your wife, and you take a knee to pray. And soldiers often take a knee in front of a fallen brother’s grave to pay respects. So I thought, if anything, besides standing, that was the most respectful.”
From Haroon Siddique yesterday www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/18/raab-betrays-his-ignorance-of-the-origin-and-meaning-of-taking-a-knee

As other posters have said its unfortunate that when UK politicians make crass statements relating to race relations it is the opposite of damaging to their career. That doesn't reflect well on the UK population does it?

@TabbyMumz I think a lot of people don't really know what they are subscribing to when they say they support the movement. That's why they've used such a catchy slogan.

So there is an organisation called blm and their manifesto is to riot and pull down statues? If that's the case, I dont support them.

There manifesto is very far left - they want to end capitalism, they are against the idea of the nuclear family, they want to defund and disband the police force amongst other issues.

Yes I heard about the defund the police bit...and didnt quite understand it. so if we dont have a police force, how do we keep law and order and keep us all safe? Oh dear, I suspect they are doing a lot to cause people not to support blm, and will not help the cause gainst racism at all. If only half of those joining the protests knew all this!!!

'There manifesto is very far left - they want to end capitalism, they are against the idea of the nuclear family, they want to defund and disband the police force amongst other issues.'

Yes there really needs to be a high profile person who brings this to the public's attention. Some are naively 'taking a knee' and maybe even contributing to the far left movement without realising. To question BLMUK's aims attracts racist slurs, they must be laughing their heads off. Why do they want to defund the police? The high rate of knife crime in London means more police on the the streets are needed not less.