To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

[IsntItIronicDontYouThink]

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

@PlanDeRaccordement

We can’t make assumptions that a woman has chosen to wear it or not. Not in the U.K., not anywhere. I think too often we make the assumption that in the U.K. or France or Canada that all Muslim women living there are doing it by choice. Some are not because a few are killed every year for refusing traditional dress/hijab. How many more are wearing it under threat? But too afraid of the coercion, violence or even being murdered by their own husband or parents to resist? Too afraid to even admit it to friends or authorities?

We can readily understand and empathise with women trapped in a violent and abusive home telling hospital staff, oh I fell or i accidently bumped my eye on a door, or I’m clumsy and burned myself because of this same fear. 3 women die every week...how many more are too afraid to speak out? The deaths are just the tip of an iceberg. We know the statistics that hundreds of thousands of women every year are abused by domestic violence. All from average 150 deaths per year. Then would not a smaller ice berg with 12 honour killing deaths per year, not indicate at least thousands of women unable to exercise their rights and freedoms?

How many is too many? How many deaths do we need before we see it as an issue worthy of addressing?

I wish you abundant success on your path to righting the wrongs being inflicted upon Muslim women, across the world.

made to wear,

choose what to wear.

You can't see a different there?

difference, sorry!

The vast majority of Muslim women do not wear a nijab, whether in the West or not.
I saw plenty of Muslim women in India and Pakistan not wearing a headscarf.

If he rapes her then it was her fault for ‘tempting’ him.
Potential death penalty in Sharia practicising countries.

(for the rapist)

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

made to wear,

choose what to wear.

You can't see a different there?

Don't patronise me, I'm fluent in three languages, have a First Class Honours degree in English and your sentence still doesn't make sense.

I'll paste it again for your benefit:

"I don't see why, as a woman I should not have an option of what other women are made to wear"

What is an 'option' of what other women are made to wear?

But the ideology that a modest woman is spiritually worthy comes from the misogynist belief that a woman is entirely responsible for a man’s reaction to her. If he rapes her then it was her fault for ‘tempting’ him. If she bears her womanly assets she is leading him into sin and temptation. Unless she wears a symbol of submission then she is godless and wanton and deserving of anything that happens to her.

But cultural mores apply to men too. Many Arab/Muslim men wear the long dress and headcovering. Many men wear a white hat to mosque. Aren't they also symbols of submission?

Of course no one wants women to be forced to wear anything. But let's not pretend that women in the West (and elsewhere) aren't judged as partly responsible when raped whilst wearing shirt skirt or when drunk. Rape statistics and conviction rates are shocking the world over.

So concerned about what women are 'made to wear' then why not volunteer for a charity for Muslim women, @ChardonnaysPetDragon?

The women all had black Burkhas on.
My DW was quite angry, because she knew how uncomfortable they must have been

How did she know? I’ve never worn a burkha, so have no idea on it’s comfort.

However when it’s hot I do find long loose dresses more comfortable than trousers and shirts. I also prefer a covering rather than using sunscreen. It also depends what they’re wearing under it. Just underwear i could imagine it being fairly cool..

I also think that many of these cultural robes originated in the arab countries where it is very hot, and they serve to protect from the burning sun. Why do we assume western dress is better than a style that has actually evolved around the heat?

However when it’s hot I do find long loose dresses more comfortable than trousers and shirts. I also prefer a covering rather than using sunscreen.
Me too. I never use sunscreen; it's messy and a faff. Covering up is easier and keeps you cooler.

@Wearywithteens

But we weren’t talking about rape defences in the West were we? We were talking about this seemingly moral clothing choice which actually has its ideological roots in the same misygonist manure.

Er, did you not see the post that I was replying to, which was about 'If he rapes her then it was her fault for ‘tempting’ him'.

Why can't we talk about the West? This issue exists the world over.

My DW was quite angry, because she knew how uncomfortable they must have been

She knew?
Or she assumed or imagined but knew? How? By projecting how she would feel unto others as how they'd all feel?

Since Islamic veiling was originally a means of distinguishing between free respectable Muslim women - who had to veil - and slave women - who were not permitted to veil, and given that society is currently reflecting deeply on the history of slavery, universal mask wearing might be seen as symbolically appropriate - as well as hygienic in the time of Corona.

I don't see that what anyone wears (as long as the essential bits are covered) is any of my business. However I do find that face coverings for women make me uncomfortable as it is a symbol of patriarchy and oppression of women.

When I was 16 and just about to leave school I found a Muslim friend of mine 8n tears because as soon as school finished she was being sent to Pakistan to marry a man she had never met. I was a pretty clueless 16 year old and my heart broke for her but there was literally nothing me or anyone else could do to help her.

She wanted to carry on studying and have a career. I will never forget her and often wonder if she's ok, I hope she's happy. I will never stop feeling guilty that I could not help her.

Ah, MN and their patronising, condescending views of Muslim women. It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. According to people on this site, anyone who chooses to cover their hair or face is brainwashed, oppressed and cannot think for themselves, even when we say until we're blue in the face that there is NO man or patriarchal culture holding a gun to our heads. I feel far more oppressed by people's generalisations and faux-pity of me than I do by any man. It's quite funny that posters on here do not apply the same critical lens around issues such as plastic surgery like on a recent thread - any suggestion that a patriarchal culture of beauty and grooming plays a huge part in women's insecurities is beaten off, yet it's a cloth on my head or face that causes such feminist outrage! (And yes, I'm a feminist - just not the acceptable white liberal variety it seems.)

Please, save your pity, we don't need it. I support every woman's right to dress as they please. If anyone is forced to wear a hijab or niqab, I disagree with that, but please stop presuming that's the case for all of us. My body, my choice.

Don't patronise me, I'm fluent in three languages, have a First Class Honours degree in English and your sentence still doesn't make sense.

You might want a refund for those.

Veils come from Assyrians and were later adopted by some Assyrian Christians. 'Famous' early Muslim women wore the veil for anonymity. Covering your face is not necessary in Islam.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Don't patronise me, I'm fluent in three languages, have a First Class Honours degree in English and your sentence still doesn't make sense.

You might want a refund for those.

KMT.

Your eloquent writing rather proves my point.

Yourproblem It happens too with any thread about Christianity too, but worse.

Also hilarious how many posters claim a knowledge of the rationale of why Muslim women cover their hair! I didn't know so many of you were experts in Quranic exegesis

My covering does not need to make sense to you, nor do I need to explain or justify it - it is a spiritual practice relevant to practitioners of my religion, not to anyone else. You do not have to like it, but please do not presume to speak on my behalf.

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Your eloquent writing rather proves my point.

Your bitterness at not being able to communicate effectively in one language is your issue, not mine.

No, your reading comprehension is your issue.

Also, you are assuming again.

How do even you know English is my only language or even my mother tongue?