To think it's ironic about Niqab and face coverings

[IsntItIronicDontYouThink]

Just thought about this and how ironically, face coverings have become mandatory on public transports and it makes me think of Muslim women (Niqab wearing women specifically) who've had a hard time because of their face coverings to now find that everyone has to cover their faces (for different reasons yes but still ironic, isn't it?)

Googled to see if anyone else mentions this. Here's a piece I found about it (There's more but just picked this one).

www.google.com/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2020/06/12/face-mask-compulsory-muslim-women-12838585/amp/

@lovelifehope I've seen the pile-ons with Christianity too, it's nasty. Apparently anyone who believes in a higher power needs rescuing - though the trope of the stupid, oppressed Muslim woman who needs 'liberation' is a particularly vile and recurrent one on here.

This is much discussed point in France iirc.

It is very wearing to have so many people claim they know more about my thoughts, feelings and experiences than I do. Especially when they try to silence me or say what I express is “nonsense”, then claim they are doing it to “liberate” me.

I hate being asked to justify my choice to cover my hair. It’s even more patronising when I have explained that one of my reasons is medical, and that somehow gets a pass as a “good enough” reason. Gee, thanks!

I belong to a community of hair wrappers. We all wrap by choice, it’s not rare at all. Women in other parts of the world don’t get that choice, and that’s bad. No-one should be policing anyone else over whether they wear a piece of fabric over their hair or not.

If it's your choice to wear one then I respect your right to do so.. I just think the way some females are treated is wrong, but that is nothing to do with religion, more tradition. I sincerely hope things have got better for women over the last 30 years, no one should have to marry against their will, but I suspect for many it isn't better and they wear a face covering because they are expected to or forced to.

I don't want to disrespect anyone, but there are many different communities with very different traditions and not all women are respected by their male relatives

@LittleMissRedHat well no though. Because when you choose to do something like that you are acting under compulsion or influence rather than at your discretion. On the other hand if you choose to wear something for no reason other than wanting to (as I did this morning when deciding what to wear, for instance, having no desire to be naked/anything else illegal nor having any dress code or other requirement to adhere to) well then that’s an exercise of free will. I’m not saying that we should always refuse to act under influence or compulsion, that would be impractical and, for most people, very stressful, just that it’s important to be able to distinguish between doing something because we truly just want to do it and doing something because we’ve been taught to want to do it.

There is no such thing as liberty without self awareness because the truest forms of oppression are the ones we perform on ourselves. If you wear a niqab (or indeed anything) as a rule and delude yourself into thinking it’s your free choice then you have oppressed yourself. If you do this in knowledge and acceptance that you are acting under societal/cultural/religious/etc. influence then at least you are sufficiently liberated to at least recognise the ways in which you have internalised oppression and, should day come that that particular rule you’ve internalised doesn’t work for you, you will be free to extricate yourself. While there are things we do out of free will, they are far fewer than most people think. It’s important to know yourself and your desires. I do a lot of things because it’s expected or admired by others, but at least I’m not blind to the fact.

Whitesplaining ITT is grim

@Anamechanged

Whitesplaining ITT is grim

As I've understood it, this thread is about religious/non religious face coverings not skin colour.

Yep that's what it's about and yet a load of people are telling actual Muslims how to feel

@Anamechanged

Yep that's what it's about and yet a load of people are telling actual Muslims how to feel

But what does that have to do with 'whitesplaining'?

I am a Muslim women and I wear niqab and it has nothing to do with oppression of women or men. I wear it because I choose to, and for me that is empowerment because it is MY choice. And to all the feminists who believe women should have a right to choose what they want to wear then why don't I have a right to cover if I choose to? My husband and family have never forced me, it was my choice to wear it even before I married.

It is a racialised issue because racism is tied into people's perception of Muslims as backwards, oppressed etc. And yes, I know Muslims are not a race, but we are a racialised group e.g. 'Paki' is often used as a slur against any visibly Muslim woman regardless of race. It is hugely presumptuous and condescending to say you know the wants and needs of Muslim women when you aren't one yourself and when you keep speaking over us under the guise of 'liberation'.

@Wearywithteens Having an opinion that Muslim women who cover must be oppressed and brainwashed is removing our agency and therefore whilst you are not telling us how to feel, it is making assumptions about how we do feel. But I can say that I wear a covering as a personal spiritual practice until the cows come home, there were still be people on this thread who presume to know my intentions and rationale better than I do and want to liberate the poor little Muslim woman.

Niqab is not a general Muslim practice, fortunately enough. The Muslims I know strongly disagree with it, but I still object to the idea of policing what women wear "for their own good".

But what does that have to do with 'whitesplaining'?

Yeah you're right, there's never a racial element to people's criticism of Islam

Interestingly, I live in a Muslim country (not Muslim myself) where most local women wear niqab. However, since you have to wear a mask in shops and such, hardly anyone is wearing niqab for the moment, instead they are wearing the mask in place of the niqab.

But the niqab is just really impractical. When a niqab wearer is out at a restaurant, they have to discreetly lift it up and thread the food underneath. That has to get old.

And all the beaches, local women just sit in groups on the sand while the men and children get to have fun. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

@Anamechanged

But what does that have to do with 'whitesplaining'?

Yeah you're right, there's never a racial element to people's criticism of Islam

The point is, you're accusing anonymous people on the internet of 'Whitesplaining' when you have no idea of the colour of their skin.

You appear to be assuming their colour based on their replies.

@HelloToMyKitty

Interestingly, I live in a Muslim country (not Muslim myself) where most local women wear niqab. However, since you have to wear a mask in shops and such, hardly anyone is wearing niqab for the moment, instead they are wearing the mask in place of the niqab.

But the niqab is just really impractical. When a niqab wearer is out at a restaurant, they have to discreetly lift it up and thread the food underneath. That has to get old.

And all the beaches, local women just sit in groups on the sand while the men and children get to have fun. It just doesn’t sit right with me.

This comment really exemplifies what many Muslim women on this thread have been saying - your observations are presumptuous and based on your own projections rather than lived experience. How do you know that it 'gets old' to wear a niqab? And niqab doesn't have to 'sit right' with you - many choices people make don't sit right with me, but I fail to see how it affects you or anyone else. On the thread about lip fillers many people said it's no one's business who gets their lips done - where are all those people who defended women's right to choose how they present now?

To not like the niqab is not racist as Muslims are of many races. It,s not anti Islam as many Muslims disagree with it.

My muslim side of family actually doesn't really consider niqab religious rather they consider it cultural in some areas. They are from country where these are not common. It's an interesting thing how everyone views it differently

And all the beaches, local women just sit in groups on the sand while the men and children get to have fun

That’s my experience of most beaches, tbh. The women sit around looking after the gear, sunbathing, tending to children, while the men and kids run off doing the physical stuff.

Plus which is actually more impractical for “having fun”- a niquab, or a bikini? For me, as an adult woman, a bikini is too flimsy and too exposing to do anything other than remain fairly stationary- I put on a cover if I move, or a wear a rash vest or proper costume to swim/play beach games...

Covering your face for cultural reasons is an ideological practice. It isn't linked to one specific religion or race (although may be more common in some) so please stop with the racist accusations. All ideologies should and will be open to criticism.

So there are no women being forced to wear one because they are forced or coerced into doing so?

One person, one family, one community does not speak for the whole. Face coverings have been used to oppress women throughout history. I personally wouldn't wear one because of what they represent.