AIBU to think that schools can't return to normal while social distancing remains?

[LockdownLoppy]

So many people want schools back to normal in September but how can they be? Even if social distancing was reduced to 1 meter it's still going to be a logistic nightmare for schools to manage and a long way from normal.
I have a child in year 10 and a child in year 7 who attends a special school due to autism and severe learning difficulties. They will both have a few check-in sessions in the last few weeks of term but it's going to be a world away from normal.
People are demanding the full reopening of schools but I just can't see how it can be done - do they just want to end all social distancing in schools and return to normal?
AIBU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

Did you see the footage of the scrum outside the Nike store on Monday?

My school looks like that in some places/times of the day.

[quote Waxonwaxoff0]@Freddiefox but it was spreading in March when schools were still open. Surely if lots of children were going to die then we would have seen evidence of it in early April. Plus, schools in some countries haven't even closed and there are no reports of children dying in droves.[/quote]
I agree.

@LockdownLoppy

Interesting - the current voting shows that 39% think IABU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

Can I ask those people how they think a school can open fully and maintain social distancing?

I’d also like to ask If schools if your not bothered that schools can’t reopen at full capacity -

Is your business/livelyhood at risk because you can’t work/open business because you have to stay home with your children?

Are you so financially secure you can cope with out the income of work?

Is your child doing brilliantly with home working

Are you not bothered that your children’s education is being effected

@ Jkslays

Time will tell.
I think it’s less risky now though than it will be in September. As I’ve mentioned i think the only way forward is ppe for staff and children.

Hopefully by September, if the numbers keep dropping at current rate, there will be so little prevalence of COVID in the community schools will be able to return as normal. It's 11 weeks away. Look how much has changed in the past 11 weeks.

It was rife in our school I think in March a few teachers and parents were ill. One positive hospitalised case

In terms of children DD seems to be the one who wasnt that well with it (and she was unwell for a week) everyone else just minor things.

@LegallyBlue I think it is 1 child who has died from it with schools open. Commensurate with other countries where schools have shut

Basically its how to handle the safety for the teaching staff if it is dropped because they are the ones at risk. PPE and social distancing from teachers etc makes sense

But actually as community transmission goes down it is less and less of a risk.

Meat packing factories etc seem to be a real issue

How many parents would sign a disclaimer to say that they understand schools are not 100% safe and if long term illness/death occurs they would take no further action

Such a disclaimer would not be legally enforceable anyway. You cannot contract out of liability for death or personal injury caused by negligence. But the question is would it be negligent to reopen schools in case one child dies? I don't think it would - plenty of children (and school staff) catch illnesses at school. The only way to prevent that is to stay at home.

@Davincitoad @twinnywinny14 with respect, I don't think it's black and white that that is the only interpretation.

I think one of the relevant documents is the planning guide for primaries:
www.gov.uk/government/publications/preparing-for-the-wider-opening-of-schools-from-1-june/planning-guide-for-primary-schools

I'm just picking out certain bits, so feel free to point at other bits, but:

"We know that, unlike older children and adults, early years and primary age children cannot be expected to remain 2 metres apart from each other and staff."

"For primary schools, classes should normally be split in half, with no more than 15 pupils per small group and one teacher (and, if needed, a teaching assistant)."

"Where desks are used, they should be spaced as far apart as possible."

I know some schools are putting 15 in a classroom. this makes a potentially huge difference to the total number of children that any one school could accommodate. I think it needs urgent clarification.

I found this article very interesting www.tes.com/news/all-dutch-primary-pupils-are-back-school-heres-how

All Dutch primary schools are now fully open with no social distancing between children under 12 & all staff. Obviously infection rates/death rates where/are lower but hopefully this is the way we're going.

I agree OP. I am desperate for our DS 15 to go back to his special school but he has no concept of social distancing and needs personal care.

Both his Teacher and the TA who feeds him at lunchtime and snack are both shielding, so there is no end in sight for us.

I am really struggling now. Apart from the virus totally disappearing or a vaccine being produced I don't see what the solution is.

I am going back to work in a classroom that usually houses up to 32 kids with a bit of a squash. I will have 6 kids in. I really don't see the point of 6 kids who will have to sit in that room all day bar from toilet breaks. 🤷🏻‍♀️

A child at my daughter's preschool years ago died from chickenpox. Our school had a scarlet fever outbreak, several children very ill with that. Infections diseases are EVERYWHERE.

In the case of chickenpox there is a perfectly good vaccine which the NHS don't use.

I would be happy to go back to work without social distancing, just an awareness of handwashing, and no licking colleagues. I would be happy for my children to return without social distancing.

@NothingIsWrong and no licking colleagues 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

When was the last time you went to a zoo confused

Granted not yet since they opened under new measures on Monday.
But normally, fairly regularly and due to go a week on Sunday actually.

There are no enclosed buildings full of 32 people. All indoor buildings in zoos are not allowed to be open at the moment.

They are outdoor. At present only outdoor parts of zoos are open and no playgrounds in them can be used.

The zoos have had to put measures in place to ensure social distancing to 2 metres. I have seen videos and photographs of the one I am heading to and it is clear they have made several changes to the route around the park and footpaths, and they have closed some of the shows, etc where people normally sit close together. They appear to be doing a good job of ensuring SD between groups from what we can see online.

The zoo staff have masks and some have gloves in all the photographs being posted.

So yes, I have been in both schools and zoos before social distancing and even then they were not comparable. Since SD they will be totally different.

@Blobby10 apparently people don't like this...

The risk of children dying from covid 19 is TINY.

And the staff?
Many who are not 20 somethings with no form of underlying health issue?

This thread is full of irrational hysteria with very little consideration of the fact that children are and will continue to suffer from lockdown. If the option was some sort of home based utopia versus a small chance of illness at school it would be easier to argue against SD being scrapped in schools and normality returning. However that simply isn’t the case. The amount of children that will come to harm from being in lockdown is, I believe, significantly higher than the number of people that would be harmed by schools opening as normal. The people hysterically shrieking about danger to kids and them all being at risk of death in school without SD in place (which let’s face it is basically impossible) seem to be completely ignoring the actual, real and immediate harm that we know for certain is happening to kids now. I find that really odd and it makes me wonder about the motives and mental state of those people (dementors). The stats may take longer to come out than they would if it were direct death/illness from covid but I genuinely think we will look back in horror at what we did to a generation of kids and the fallout of that. They need to get back to school in September.

The govt need to make a clear plan and actually let us know what is going on!
The school i work at has a plan A, B , C and D based on trying to pre empt what Boris will say next! Apparently they are waiting to see how the virus behaves. Fair enough, but they could have some clear stategic planning for schools.

I have been doing welfare phone calls this morning and lots of parents were trying to 'book' their child in for summer school. I had to explaim that school have had no guidance/correspondence on this AT All!

I have just recieved my timetable for September based on Plan D (everything back to normal) with the caveat that this probably won't happen .

@Chosenone you are right. How can anyone prepare for a situation when we have no idea what is happening? Once again the government (actually it was the PM) over a week ago mentioned ‘summer catch up’ but have said no more about it. Parents are hoping for summer school, schools have no idea what the expectations are and the government go silent over it. I work in a day nursery and we are trying to make sense of the situation whilst also planning for new children to start with us, whilst we cannot do settling in sessions and have no idea how many children we will be allowed in September

I also have a child in a special school with autism and severe learning disabilities,Op I just can't see how it's going to get back to normal it's going to e impossible to social distance where all.the children have complex disabilities an a good proportion have personal care needs .

Re: kids being harmed by bring stuck at home.

Clearly it is not ideal to be stuck at home and lockdown affects everyone psychologically and kids will be worst affected by not having developed tools to deal with it not to mention those vulnerable children in abusive households etc.

in the grand scheme of things academically they will be behind but this will be adjusted for in grade boundaries.

Ino one on this thread has said loads of kids will die from being in school. It is quite possible that their relations staff and staff families might though.

Many people argue the disruption for young people is not worth it to save lives for older people. Thankfully the government up to now disagreed with that.

Currently the government has decided that the disruption to children and their families is a price worth paying to save lives even if others disagree.

Most people would not make these arguments if it was the other way around

Most people would not make these arguments if it was the other way around

If this was a virus that only killed children do you think all the older people would have their life turned upside down, their support system taken away, what if it affected pension and finances?course they bloody wouldn't.

Well lots of working people have done exactly that to benefit the older generation with likely severe implications for finances etc. I'd like to think it would have happened if it was the other way around.

What i woudn't imagine is that if the virus was more risky for kids than adults people would argue that we should then send kids to school if they were at risk of catching it from staff.

Apparently it doesnt matter if teachers catch it from kids though. Some posters on here argue that is a price worth paying. Others dont even factor it in to their thinking it seems

Well lots of working people have done exactly that to benefit the older generation with likely severe implications for finances etc. I'd like to think it would have happened if it was the other way around

That's what I mean. I don't think they would. It's been quite obvious how little regard a lot of people have for children. Children are viewed as dirty and germ ridden and aren't allowed in shops for fear they might infect people. They've no school, no playgrounds.

Would older people like it if we all jumped out of their way on the pavement and closed garden centres because ugh you don't want to catch germs off those germ ridden pensioners?

No! And we wouldnt do that or say it because it would be ageist, judgemental and rude. Fair play when it comes to kids apparently.

I care a lot about teachers, they of course are at risk however arguably their risk of being very ill or dying is still pretty small. I wouldnt expect anyone vulnerable to be back in the classroom.

As a semi vulnerable person myself id be quite happy to teach in a school right now. I appreciate that's my personal opinion but the risk is negligible. I'd support ppe if that's what teachers wanted.

Children going to school always results in a small risk to others even in normal times. Infectious diseases like flu and chicken pox spread around schools and slightly increase the risk of death to teachers and anyone the child comes into contact with. The risk from covid Is higher but possibly not by much given that in normal times we take almost no precautions to prevent the spread of these diseases and at the moment we will take at least some precautions even if social distancing is scrapped. We accept the risk in normal times because education is important. Someone suggested that one death of a child from covid would be too many to justify opening schools but there’s evidence that severe child abuse cases have increased during lockdown so it seems likely that keeping children off school will kill some children in itself. It’s unfortunate that the left wing media who are usually pro education have come down on the side of indefinite and indiscriminate lockdown as I think that that has had a significant impact in the hesitancy about reopening them.