AIBU to think that schools can't return to normal while social distancing remains?

[LockdownLoppy]

So many people want schools back to normal in September but how can they be? Even if social distancing was reduced to 1 meter it's still going to be a logistic nightmare for schools to manage and a long way from normal.
I have a child in year 10 and a child in year 7 who attends a special school due to autism and severe learning difficulties. They will both have a few check-in sessions in the last few weeks of term but it's going to be a world away from normal.
People are demanding the full reopening of schools but I just can't see how it can be done - do they just want to end all social distancing in schools and return to normal?
AIBU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

I think it's crazy to expect it.

Where I live numbers are lower than some pats of the UK, and preschools have just been allowed to reopen - but they are supposed to maintain social distancing. I think that is totally crazy - toddlers do not get that concept and I think it will be miserable for them and the caregivers.

Similarly with schools. Older kids (maybe 10+) can remember things like not touching I think, with reminders, but kids that are under about 8 will struggle and no way for the youngest.

That's before all the logistical issues of space etc.

That being said - I think governments are kind of stuck. There is no way to run a society with these rules long term, but if people get sick they will be blamed. People won't accept the idea that it may not be possible to prevent the spread to the degree we'd like to.

@Chessie678

Children going to school always results in a small risk to others even in normal times. Infectious diseases like flu and chicken pox spread around schools and slightly increase the risk of death to teachers and anyone the child comes into contact with. The risk from covid Is higher but possibly not by much given that in normal times we take almost no precautions to prevent the spread of these diseases and at the moment we will take at least some precautions even if social distancing is scrapped. We accept the risk in normal times because education is important. Someone suggested that one death of a child from covid would be too many to justify opening schools but there’s evidence that severe child abuse cases have increased during lockdown so it seems likely that keeping children off school will kill some children in itself. It’s unfortunate that the left wing media who are usually pro education have come down on the side of indefinite and indiscriminate lockdown as I think that that has had a significant impact in the hesitancy about reopening them.

I red a post recently by someone talking about church services - that even if one person died, it would not be worth it.

But that's not actually how it is. In a place with no community spread as was this person's situation, someone going to church would be more likely to get killed in a car accident on the way there.

It's no use to talk about zero risk because it never is zero.

@TabbyMumz I'm actually thinking of the mental health of the country.
My service users need face to face support, telephone is not enough.
I'm thinking of people who have had operations postponed that would improve their quality of life-knee replacements, back operations, cateract removal, hysterectomies. Also cancer services.
Definitely not what I want, and surely it's natural as a mother to want your children to have whats best for their wellbeing?

Why can't we keep those rules where we can but scrap it in schools where we cant as by doing the former will help the latter!

I think there is merit in this argument. However I’d feel a lot better if I didn’t keep reading “my teens are meeting up with their friends anyway so they might as well be in school”.

I’d be happy for social distancing to be scrapped in schools and for the teachers to be able to wear masks and visors for protection.

It is a balancing exercise - what needs to be opened up because the risks of not are more than covid and what can be kept under tighter control to reduce transmission.

Education and NHS and Care Services need to be opened up.

Offices where working from home (like myself and DH) with little impact to production or risks to people should continue to do so for the foreseeable.

No we shouldnt be getting back completely to normal because quite a few things can run perfectly well under the current conditions. However we do need to restart those that cant

I would be happy with part time schooling for my secondary school dd in September as long as she is getting some sort of education even part time would be better than home learning full time which is not working.
Surely having all kids back part time in September would be better than nothing at all.

"Greggers2017

@TabbyMumzI'm actually thinking of the mental health of the country.
My service users need face to face support, telephone is not enough.
I'm thinking of people who have had operations postponed that would improve their quality of life-knee replacements, back operations, cateract removal, hysterectomies. Also cancer services.
Definitely not what I want, and surely it's natural as a mother to want your children to have whats best for their wellbeing?

Greggers, you clearly aren't, you are thinking about what you want. You cant say how you think others are. Our mental health is fine, so is the mental health of all my extended family and I suspect for many others. I dont get people saying their kids are sad not being at school. I would have been loody ecstatic as a child to get 3 months off! My kids have loved it. And yes people need surgeries, but we also need nurses and doctors and patients to not get covid. Anyhow lots of cancer treatments and other treatments are starting to happen. What's been best for my children is to be off, during a pandemic!!!

And I also think what sort of children are we bringing up that they cant cope with 3 months off school! I suspect its more the parents who cant cope with having them around.

TabbyMumz, I wasn't going to say anything - your DC, your choice whether to send them back or not - but that's just offensive and wrong. I love DD and want the best for her. In my judgement, that is being back in school. She's bored, lonely and demotivated at home, she's a sociable child and needs the company of other children. She also needs better work than the pathetic 'home learning' the school is sending. And yes, I have raised that with the school. Funnily enough I am not a teacher, never wanted to be a teacher and don't have the right skills to do a good job. Should I have trained as one just in case the government abandoned the universal right to an education?

@TabbyMumz maybe the sort who have parents in high pressured, demanding jobs who cannot provide home schooling. Children need socialising, they need friendships, they needs routine and they need a proper education. Of course many children are sad, they need normality. They don't need to be stuck at home.
You have no idea about people's mental health and just be happy and thankful none of your family are suffering.
I write it as I want but that is the truth of what I think needs to happen.

@ProfessorRadcliffeEmerson I completely agree and I think many people are the same.

I work in substance misuse and trying to deal with addiction, domestic violence and mental health, plus everything else that comes with it over the phone, is impossible.
Partner is a probation officer and he's the same.

@HipTightOnions

But if the teens were in school, wouldn't it be easier to tell them that they had seen their friends for the day so then they could be more persuadable to dial down out of school and would have less time for it anyway. Lots of teens hanging out outside where we are - can't blame them or their parents. I would have gone nuts cooped up with just parents as a teen.

Surely having all kids back part time in September would be better than nothing at all.
I'd be happy with this too.

I know some countries in Europe have gone back with no 'bubbles' but their average class sizes are smaller than ours so they haven't got 30-32 kids in a room, more like 15-20.

@TabbyMunz cant you see though that at this point you need to balance it all out. COVID 19 is rapidly becoming not the only risk this country faces

This is beyond a normal environment for children and the lack of social interaction and family interaction (particularly one assumes with an extended family like yours), not being able to touch or communicate face to face with anyone not in their household is immense.

And mine loved it at the beginning - but do you know what he is mature enough now to realise that having the downtime and freedom to do what you want isnt quite the same when you have it all the time. He misses the structure and social interaction of school and is desperate to go back.

But this argument isnt whether they can cope with 3 months off, that has been done. We are also asking them to do another 3 months. The argument is what are the risks to this generation for them being out of education for more than 6 months if we cannot get our act together and make it full time for them in September.

"Greggers2017

Children need socialising, they need friendships, they needs routine and they need a proper education. "

They also need to be alive. Do you understand why we had a lockdown and why schools had to shut? Seeing their friends and getting an education comes secondary to that in my book.

"Of course many children are sad, they need normality. They don't need to be stuck at home."

But they shouldn't be stuck at home. Around me hardly anyone has taken their children out for walks, then 10 weeks later they are desperate to get them back to school!

"You have no idea about people's mental health and just be happy and thankful none of your family are suffering."

Neither do you. You talk about service users and mental health so I presume that's your line of work? Just because you may work with people with mental health issues doesnt mean that's a common theme for everyone through lockdown. You cant make that assumption. The majority of people I know have said they feel less stressed and that lockdown has done them some good. I dont think we should presume theres masses of sad kids out there desperate to get back to school.

"I write it as I want but that is the truth of what I think needs to happen."
Sorry, but I dont agree I think it's a very slow and measured process, taking into account numbers of cases etc. I dont think we should get rid of the 2 metre rule yet, and I dont think kids can go back in September.

"But this argument isnt whether they can cope with 3 months off, that has been done. We are also asking them to do another 3 months. The argument is what are the risks to this generation for them being out of education for more than 6 months if we cannot get our act together and make it full time for them in Septemb"

But it's not 6 months off education, is it? Its 3. They are normally off school for the Summer hols. So not missing out on 6 months at all. And as things are opening up much more now, they can get out and about more, see friends, go shopping etc.

"not being able to touch or communicate face to face with anyone not in their household is immense."
My kids have been absolutely fine with this. As I suspect have many others. They see people when they go for walks, on Skype etc, speak to their friends for hours every day through social media.

@TabbyMumz I would never judge a mum who decides to keep her children off school, that's her choice but mums should also have a choice to send them.
Yes I work with people with mental health issues, I am also in close contact with the mental health support lines, the hospital liaison teams, refuge, IDVA, social care, the police, probation, CMHT, the crisis teams, so trust me I know what the mental health situation is at present.

But Greggers, ensuring you have a choice to send them, takes the choice away from people who work in schools. They probably dont want the added stress or worry of getting covid or taking it home to their family.

@TabbyMumz great that your kids are OK. Many many are not. Have you seen the statistics about how many vulnerable children who are entitled to a place are not taking it up? less than 10% are in school - where are the rest? These are children who are KNOWN to be at risk and vulnerable.

And Greggers, I don't agree, you only know of the mental health of people who contact or use your service. You dont know the full picture of mental health throughout the country and of all those people whose mental health is better because of lockdown!! That was my point. You work in that area, but that doesnt mean you can say what everyone who doesnt contact or need that area's mental health is like!!

You probably have a skewed view because of your line of work. That's what I'm trying to say.

"NothingIsWrong

@TabbyMumzgreat that your kids are OK. Many many are not. Have you seen the statistics about how many vulnerable children who are entitled to a place are not taking it up? less than 10% are in school - where are the rest? These are children who are KNOWN to be at risk and vulnerable."

But many many are! That's my point. Just because a few people on here want their kids back, doesnt mean it's safe to do so!

@NothingIsWrong I don't think she is aware no.
The deaths from domestic violence have rocketed too. There has been 4 deaths of women in a 3 week period, in my home town. And that's just one town.
Vulnerable children is a nightmare too. I work regularly with social care and they are absolutely overloaded at the minute. The whole situation is so stressful.