AIBU to think that schools can't return to normal while social distancing remains?

[LockdownLoppy]

So many people want schools back to normal in September but how can they be? Even if social distancing was reduced to 1 meter it's still going to be a logistic nightmare for schools to manage and a long way from normal.
I have a child in year 10 and a child in year 7 who attends a special school due to autism and severe learning difficulties. They will both have a few check-in sessions in the last few weeks of term but it's going to be a world away from normal.
People are demanding the full reopening of schools but I just can't see how it can be done - do they just want to end all social distancing in schools and return to normal?
AIBU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

@TrustTheGeneGenie

How many parents would sign a disclaimer to say that they understand schools are not 100% safe and if long term illness/death occurs they would take no further action

I would.

My child got chicken pox from nursery.

If he'd have died of that, would I have blamed nursery?

No. Of course not because I understand how infectious disease works and I'm not a moron.

I’d sign one

I thought they had scrapped SD in schools really? I mean, I thought the guidance was a wishy washy, "yeah if you can but you don't really have to". They've certainly scrapped it to allow nurseries to go back (obviously you can't SD babies and toddlers from each other or from staff, I physically hand my 11 month old to her nursery worker each morning, they change her nappy, feed her, pick her up etc.).
I think the bigger issue for schools opening is the size of the bubbles, if a bubble can only be 15 they'll need double the staff and double the classrooms.

Obviously schools will not be able to open normally without scrapping social distancing. There is neither space nor staff capacity to run schools with "bubbles" if you want the whole cohort in. Nor can secondary schools run as normal with bubbles - pupils wouldn't be seeing specialist teachers. I'm a Chemistry teacher, I can't teach A Level Spanish!

Schools will not/cannot open with social distancing in place. The sooner people accept this, the sooner we can more on to having a productive conversation. There are obviously two choices:

• schools open. Social distancing is scrapped, probably with similar systems to what we had immediately before lockdown (one-way systems in corridors where possible, lots of handwashing, vulnerable staff and students stay at home). It is very likely that infection rates will rise.

• schools do not open. We put our resources into planning the best possible remote learning strategy. Bigger disparities in education occur (single parents, working parents etc will not be able to manage provision), but we consider that a necessary evil to reduce spread of disease. We accept that learning will be remote unless/until there is a vaccine or evidence of significant herd immunity (so potentially doing much of next academic year this way).

It's a trade-off. As a society, we need to decide what we consider to be an acceptable balance. But we're not having a sensible discussion about that balance yet, too many people are asking for the impossible and that is clouding the issue.

@Tfoot75

Lots of children die every year from chicken pox and other infectious diseases and their complications. That they have caught in school. People who think that's fine (because it's not on the news) but that all schools and education in the country should be cancelled to prevent the death of one child from Covid19 are totally batshit, sorry. It is a cost/benefit situation, there is very little cost to children from Covid19, enormous cost of not going to school = allow all children to go to school normally. It isn't rocket science, and I'm really hoping that's where we end up.

If you think that's too risky, carry on.

Me too. I’m hoping Boris has got the balls to say - ‘right everybody that can go back - go back’

@TrustTheGeneGenie

The children haven’t been anywhere to test that theory. They have been home. Yes a few have been to school, a few have been to the shops. But most children have been stuck with their families inside

Why are the children of keyworkers not dropping dead then?

The spread in march was huge. If this was going to kill children, they would have started dying early April. They didn't.

Because they are in small bubbles no more than 15 with the whole school to use. They have also spent a lot of time outdoor playing.

I'd support reopening without social distancing (and would be happy to go back to my own workplace without it, the only reason I'm still off is that they're asking us to WFH till September). DD is more likely to be struck by lightning than to die of Covid-19, I have the same risk of dying of it as I do of dying of chicken pox. Social services would be all over me in ordinary times if I kept DD off to protect her and me from that level of risk. Her teachers are mostly younger than me, so unless an implausible number of them have invisible health conditions, their risk is also low.

Because they are in small bubbles no more than 15 with the whole school to use. They have also spent a lot of time outdoor playing

Yes but that has no effect on the fact some of their parents are treating covid patients all day? Or they work in a supermarket? Or they teach other children or work in a nursery?

Why aren't they catching covid and dying?

These kind of threads keep popping up but right from the start it has been obvious there is little danger to most kids.

There is however danger to staff in schools and equally to relatives of those children and staff at home.

I dont agree that schools should be exempt from social distancing measures that apply to all other workplaces or absent that the ppe that must be provided. Unions are doing their jobs here which is to ensure their employers treat them fairly and due care for their safety.

Most people on these threads seem indifferent about the risk to staff and their families but lets be honest they wouldn't be so blase if the risk was the same to their children. Because it's someone else who could die/end up in hospital/ suffer prolonged side effects they are happy to advocate abandoning sd for schools only and its not uncommon to hear people say its a disgrace it hasnt happened already.

Soon enough the government will reduce social distancing to 1m which will help matters but it will not be possible to have all kids in until this is reduced further. When this haopens it should be eveyone not just for schools.

@Freddiefox but it was spreading in March when schools were still open. Surely if lots of children were going to die then we would have seen evidence of it in early April. Plus, schools in some countries haven't even closed and there are no reports of children dying in droves.

Social distancing is important to prevent the spread of the virus. So it has to remain in schools for the safety of children and staff.

You can't abandon it in school because parents have no childcare.

50% of parents might sign a disclaimer.
Which means 50% might not.

Which then means schools offering a 2 tier education and childcare service with no extra funding, reduced staffing and ridiculous lack of resources, particularly ICT. SLT are also trying to sort FSM.
Vulnerable children and school refusers still won't attend.
The last 2 weeks before lockdown attendance at my school reduced dramatically. It was down to 30% on March 16th. Some of those families are still very scared. Rightly or wrongly.

The issue isn't the children. There is enough evidence now that children aren't at huge risk from the virus.

The issue is protecting staff members. Teachers should be provided with PPE the same as any other jobs that can't be done with distancing.

Which then means schools offering a 2 tier education and childcare service with no extra funding, reduced staffing and ridiculous lack of resources, particularly ICT. SLT are also trying to sort FSM.
Vulnerable children and school refusers still won't attend

Exactly the same situation if they do "blended learning"

Blended learning is controlled by the school. Which children, from which sets, using which rooms on which days. It has taken military style organisation.

It is not based on which parents are willing to send them in or not!
I do know that there is a requirement from DFE for schools to up their game on remote learning provision. All children should be having work marked and recieving regular contact and feedback from now on. Some schools are now doing remote training on the education software.

@Chosennone

Blended learning is controlled by the school. Which children, from which sets, using which rooms on which days. It has taken military style organisation.

It is not based on which parents are willing to send them in or not!
I do know that there is a requirement from DFE for schools to up their game on remote learning provision. All children should be having work marked and recieving regular contact and feedback from now on. Some schools are now doing remote training on the education software.

But it's still a two tier system. People still won't send their kids in and won't be forced to. Vulnerable children will continue to not attend.

Some kids will attend and have great support at home, some will have two ft working parents and won't do much at home, some will have parents who don't give a shit.

Blended learning is a terrible idea. It's problematic for schools, more work for teachers and just plain shite for children.

My children's school sent out emails last week stating that if social distancing is not scrapped by September then children will not return to school as they have not got the manpower or space etc
If social distancing gets dropped to 1.5 or 1 metre then children year by year will return on a one or two day week basis.

People keep thinking September is the magic month when things will get back to normal but from where I stand if social distancing is still in place if even in a 1 or 1.5 basis then this government best pump some millions or billions into child and adult mental health services like they are doing with everything else.

Many two parent families will have to decide who is giving up their jobs or careers
Single parents will lose their livelihoods maybe homes too
Child mental health will rocket
Adult mental health will rocket
The list is endless what this will cause.

In my case if things don't resolve by September I will be contemplating taking back my violent abusive ex who I managed to break free from early lock down because that will be the only way I will be able to survive and keep a roof over my head for me and my 5 children. It does not bear thinking about.

@Waxonwaxoff0

The issue isn't the children. There is enough evidence now that children aren't at huge risk from the virus.

The issue is protecting staff members. Teachers should be provided with PPE the same as any other jobs that can't be done with distancing.

Thus I agree with you on and I think it’s the only way forward. I would also argue that children would need to wear ppe for it to be effective. Particularly junior age children.

Given the info we have had is that kids don't tend to pass it to adults, the kids absolutely should be allowed back as normal. And staff distance from each other.

To my knowledge, the fact that kids may not pass it on has been speculated on but not proven as yet. In the government briefing they talk about the risk to kids is vanishingly small which is self evident from mortality figures. When the scientific advisers CONFIRM that they believe kids dont pass it on either then we can take the approach of sd staff only.

@Fedup21

Many people seem to want social distancing in their own workplaces (or long term working from home) and when out and about to keep themselves safe.

They want schools to go back as normal, however, with no social distancing at all-including wraparound care and clubs, mixing with huge numbers of children and staff!

Safety is obviously very important for their workplace, but not for those working in a school...

100% this!

Key workers have rightly been afforded PPE throughout this pandemic. As shops and businesses return, most are going to great lengths to, quite rightly, protect their staff.

Yet people seem quite happy for school staff to return with absolutely NO protection and now want no social distancing?! We have been actively told that we cannot source and wear our own PPE.

I do not see any other workers having to return to their workplace under these conditions.

I absolutely agree that children need to get back into school and I don’t have the answers as to how this could SAFELY happen.

Interesting - the current voting shows that 39% think IABU to think we can't have social distancing and schools open and working at full capacity?

Can I ask those people how they think a school can open fully and maintain social distancing?

Any social distancing in schools will lead to multiple logistical problems preventing full opening
Need to scrap social distancing in schools - and yes if he happy to send my own children back in those circumstances

@millymollymoomoo

Any social distancing in schools will lead to multiple logistical problems preventing full opening Need to scrap social distancing in schools - and yes if he happy to send my own children back in those circumstances

Would you also be skipping back to work if you had to work in a school?

Funnily enough, there aren’t only the children to consider in this.

[quote LegallyBlue]**@TrustTheGeneGenie* I'm not a moron* Based on what you've said so far, this is very bold and unsubstantiated claim to make.[/quote]
I don't think there was any need for that, do you?