To start an IDGAF thread about football restarting?

[TakemedowntoPotatoCity]

If, like me, you see the lack of education provision for months and the devastating effect on the UK economy and people's livelihoods as marginally more important than a bunch of millionaires kicking a ball about you can come here to lament the lack of fucks around these parts. Football widows welcome.

I didn't call you a snob sleep I was talking generally. You see hobby snobbery all the time on MN.

That last paragraph of mine isn't contradictory at all. It's fine to not like football....I don't like it at all! But I don't think that makes me better than those that do. That's what I have an issue with.

[quote SleepOhHowIMissYou]@SueEllenMishke I was referring to the last paragraph of your post...
"Or maybe we accept that people have different interests and that what makes the world an interesting place."

And calling me a snob for not agreeing with you just bolsters the hypocrisy of this statement. Perhaps you need to take your own advice?[/quote]
SueEllenMishke hasn't said anything negative about other people's interests, merely expressed disappointment that so many people are being unpleasant about this one. I don't think that is hypocrisy. And actually, I don't think "I really, really object to people being snobs about other people's interests and hobbies. Who are they to decide what is worthy?" can be taken to be "calling [you] a snob for not agreeing with [them]".

Thanks iwalkin

@sleepohhowimissyou I'm sure you're aware that you are lumping huge numbers of normal, rational people in with a minority of idiots who will use anything as an excuse to make trouble.

Genuine fans have nothing more than friendly rivalry with other teams. It's fun and it's a shared experience. Some people are hell bent on making trouble at political rallies, at gigs, at local festivals, at office parties etc. but we don't tar all those who enjoy those events as mindless hooligans.

@BlusteryShowers @SueEllenMishke @Iwalkinmyclothing you're all doing it now. It's okay to have a different opinion you know. I don't agree with you and as @SueEllenMishke said, that's fine, we don't have to agree. However, it seems that I am free to have the "right" opinion as far as you're concerned? That's the contradiction here.

Tribalism is about group identity and exclusion of other groups of differing identity. It can lead to racism and violence but by its very nature creates an othering mindset even in its most innocuous forms.

At what point have I said it isn't okay to like different things sleep
The whole point of my posts have been about people having different interests and not being judged for those interests.

However, the assumptions that football fans are stupid, racist, misogynistic, violent etc (to list some of the insults levelled at football fans in this post) really pisses me off.
The football fans I know aren't any of those things.
If you're judging someone because they happen to like football it says far more about you than them.

@SueEllenMishke "I guess you could say a lot of what we do/support/watch etc 'doesn't really matter'. Where do we draw the line? Who decides what matters and what doesn't?"

I'd say the person who either likes or dislikes the sport. There's no wrong opinion.

"Or maybe we accept that people have different interests and that what makes the world an interesting place."

I repeat, I totally agree, again, no wrong options. However, all team sport, not just football encourages tribalism. I don't think that's a good thing. I am allowed to have that opinion, it's not "wrong" because it doesn't match yours.

The people on here who do find football misogynistic, racist etc., they also can have their own opinions, it's allowed. That's their experience, so that's their opinion. Your mileage may vary.

Correct me if I'm wrong sleep but didn't you brand football fans shit dads?

Saying you don't like football is an opinion and one everyone is entitled to have. For you it might be about tribalism for others ( like me) it's that I'm just not interested.

Calling all football fans misogynists/stupid/racist is different. Can't you not understand that and the issues that might raise?

I was married to a basketball fan....now he was a misogynistic twat and emotionally abusive as well. So were his basketball fan brothers and friends.

However, I don't go around calling all basketball fans misogynists because I realise that is has nothing to do with basketball. That just happened to be the sport he was interested in.

@SueEllenMishke you're confusing me with someone else. I have not accused anyone of anything.

I'm not a fan of tribalism, and that's what I've said because that's what I think.

I said I know some Dads who can name football players and goals dating back decades but not know the name of their kid's teachers. Other people used the term 'shit dads', again you're confusing me with them. Their words, not mine.

I cannot see the point of football and therefore my opinion is that it is not worth the division it engenders.

I'm not trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong. It an opinion, therefore, subjective.

I am, however, standing firm on my right to have a different opinion and should be able to do this without being accused of thinking all football fans are a homogenous mass (I haven't said that and don't think that).

There are nuances in all situations but the common factor in football is tribalism.

Perhaps there are fans who go to see any team play and support them all equally, but I don't know any, do you?

Agree. Nobody has said all fans are bad, just that it's more trouble than its worth.

sleep if it's tribalism you have an issue with ( which is fine) then why even bother bringing up the whole ' men can remember every goal scored but not their kids teachers'? What point we're you trying to make?

Any dad who doesn't know the names of his kids teachers is a shit dad. But that has nothing to do with football.

Anabel you tried to brand male football fans racist thugs.

But hey, you guys judge all you like. It's says far more about you than the football fans you dislike so much 🤷

When people try to engage me in a discussion about football I reply crushingly (or at least that's the intention!), "I used to be interested in football. Then I grew up

To which I'd reply "i never knew being an adult ment no fun and a stick up your ass" so don't worry, I wouldn't be crushed, I'd pity you for having such a narrow view on adults and what we can like.
So what are your hobbies?

Aussie rules been back a couple weeks now and it's been heaven. 2 states even looking at crowds of 10.000 to 25.000. I damn near cried when first game started. Even better my team top of the ladder

I'm not a massive fan of football myself but dp is. He loves our hometown smallish team and is proud of how its survived over the years, he doesn't go to many away games anymore but goes to most of the home games and I go with him a lot of the time and I like it. It's a nice atmosphere where we sit and it's become a bit of a family thing we do.
Hes well aware of the misogyny and corruption. Who isnt?

However our local Fc has done a lot for grassroots and women's footie locally and a lot of the players engage with the wider community and we know a few of them personally as a result.

It's a little bit of joy in an otherwise joyless world at the moment.

I really really hate the assumption that every single football fan is a racist thug. They're not

@LakieLady totally missed your reply about MotoGP! The schedule is nuts, going to be tough on the riders for sure

@SueEllenMishke the Dads not knowing the names of their kid's teachers but being more invested in football is related to tribalism. They prioritise this information because it confirms their own sense of self and belonging, it is who they are.

Has the statement "I'm insert team through and through" been said on here yet?

It's considered important enough to tattoo on your body such is the importance of this identity.

@ghostmous3 who is making the assumption that ALL football fans are thugs? I haven't seen anyone do this on here and think this argument just hyperbole.

I'm annoyed personally by dismissive and sneering references to "just 11 men kicking a ball around*

Ignorant.

I disagree sleep
You can be a huge sports fan AND be an interested, involved parent and partner. I know some pretty hardcore football fans but they are family men/women first and foremost.

My DH knows everything there is to know about his team but that doesn't mean he doesn't know everything about his child. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

As for tattoos ...well my friend has tattoo of a pair of dance shoes as that's her passion.

And why is it tribalism and not passion? Why is wrong to be part of a group with shared interests?
My DH is from Manchester. Being a Man city fan is part of his identity as a Mancunian. Why is that a bad thing?

@SueEllenMishke

tribalism
/ˈtrʌɪbəlɪz(ə)m/

noun
1 the state or fact of being organized in a tribe or tribes.

passion
/ˈpaʃ(ə)n/

noun
1 1. 
strong and barely controllable emotion.

Perhaps I don't know your husband personally so when I mention "some fathers" it could be a possibility that I'm not talking about him. Have you considered this possibility?

Does your friend with the dance shoes only support one dance troupe? Does she have to avoid pubs near the Royal Opera House as she's only welcome in those next to Sadlers Wells?

@ilovesooty so a person who doesn't agree with you is ignorant?

I always think of ignorance as being unable to accept another's point of view without throwing insults.

Don't go anywhere near the Royal Opera house. They're a really rough lot with their musical tattoos. Sat outside glugging wine, not even from a glass, straight out of the bottle. Just waiting for us Sadlers Wells lot to walk by .

I know what tribalism is sleep

It's fine for you to not like football and quote tribalism as a reason (but then you must also dislike other sports and politics) but to claim those involved football know nothing about their children just makes you sounds silly.

I'm not just talking about my husband. I know a lot of football fans. None of them are disengaged parents. I don't understand why you are making that connection.

The tattoo thing is strange too.... people get tattoos for all kinds of reasons (my friends dance shoes are in particular reference to one show, a show she's followed around the world) but I know people who have tattoos of bands, rugby teams, films etc. Why single out football teams?

@IamaBluebird hey, opera glasses launched at the back of your head is no laughing matter 😃

🎼 there's only one Pavarotti...one Pavarotti 🎼