To think that actually, there probably is a paedophile on every corner?

[MrsToadofToadHall]

When I first became a parent, back in the 2000s, I tended to think that some other parents were quite irrational about their fears regarding paedophiles. There seemed to be quite a lot of hysteria about child abductions whipped up in the tabloids, quite a few of the mums I knew looked very suspiciously on men who worked or volunteered with children, and I tended to think that although paedophiles unfortunately existed, they were in the minority and we shouldn't raise our children to be suspicious of every man just because he was a man, nor should we limit their independence due to fear of something that was very unlikely to happen. I suppose I was a bit "cool mum" and proud of my ability to rationalise and see through hysteria

In recent years, I've come to think that I was wrong. So many famous and prominent people have been exposed as having abused children and teenagers. Although I have always supported a certain level of sex ed in schools, elements of this have gone beyond a level I'm comfortable with. It seems to me to be more acceptable to expose children to sexual/adult issues at an earlier age. As well as this, recent revelations in my own fairly small community have caused me to reconsider - a teenager who abused younger relatives, it was brought to the attention of police and SS but in the end, all that could be done was refer him for optional counselling. Three or four men have been found out as they attempted to groom very young girls, some primary aged, via social media. Friends have also confided in me regarding their own childhood abuse. I know most of these men, and while I realise that abusers don't come with a big sticker on their forehead, most of them really were spectacularly ordinary and had wives and children

Obviously I still realise that the vast majority of men are fine, but my point is, I thought paedophiles were a few lone individuals, and now it seems there are far more of them about than I ever would have realised.

Does that make sense?

Just to add to this, I’ve been quite shocked recently looking on online adult porn sites and not impressed with the amount of ‘teenage’ or ‘barely legal’ etc women in the videos, intentionally made to look childish and young Very rarely the other way round. Turns my stomach. This is what teenage boys are looking at to learn about sex.

@DopamineHits

Not just men and not just adults.

But mostly men - by a very wide margin - and mostly adults.

Yes I agree with this.

I was sexually abused and assaulted by four different men at different times in my childhood up untill the age of 15.

Three were opportunistic one was a regular baby sitter.

Two of my close friends were abused by family members

Another friends son was enticed in to a mans home one morning in the way to school and was sexually assaulted. He wasn’t even charged.

A friends dd was assaulted one night by her cousins boyfriend. She was 11 at the time. He went to prison.

The only person I trust with my kids is myself and dh.

Absolutely. We don't do sleepovers, blanket rule. Our children don't run in and out of neighbours' houses. We socialise in groups and I always know where they are. We don't assume anything about anyone, no matter how nice they are. I sit back and weigh up everyone and then take precautions regardless of how safe they seem. We tell our kids that some people aren't appropriate around children and it's our job to think about it. I don't care if that makes me odd. But it's sad that we have to be like this when most people are just as they seem.

It is scary really. It’s the mountain of abuse that goes un punished and is still in the dark, and much of this is within families, in communities by men with access to children.

I think we need to be strong as parents and quite critical about any time our children spend away from us, and not letting uncle so or so babysit or unsupervised play with cousins, or leaving kids to look after kids.

I’m in an area where I’m tutted at and looked down upon for not letting my kid just wander out with the local kids, don’t let any male family members babysit, or any woman I don’t think has sufficient maturity. My child is vulnerable as they have special needs. I don’t care what anyone thinks.

My other child I’ve spent much time educating and making sure he knows his body is his own, not to get into any special friendships with the sports coach or whatever, red flags.

I’m separating and having difficult conversations with Ex about it. I won’t let it go, I don’t care if you think Uncle X is totally fine, he’s not babysitting even when he’s with Ex. I think we need to be pretty confident as parents. Unfortunately many people still think it’s over cautiousness ‘gone mad’, or how dare you not let him sleep over with cousin so and so in same bed. There is a lot of enabling because many people will always defend adult family before anyone.

I think there are more than people often think, yes. I also think however that there are significant downsides to preventing kids from having relationships with any male, and I've seen people take that approach. So- I guess the real question is, knowing that, what to do about it?

One of the things that concerns me though is the effects the internet has had on this. People tend to use the term paedophilia pretty broadly, but it's a technical designation and that is significant. It means people who have a sort of innate sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children. It doesn't include attraction to individuals who have entered puberty. And many people don't realise a significant portion of child sex abusers are opportunistic, there are other things that are pushing them towards children.

We don't know if it's even possible to prevent someone who is really a paedophile from feeling that way, but social and cultural factors can play a part in normalising sex with kids, and those are things we can control to some extent. A huge part of the problem with the modern porn industry is that the way online porn works on the brain, users quickly become desensitised and have to look for more and more edgy material to become aroused. So now you have all these people being sensitised to child porn who likely wouldn't have been otherwise.

Combating child porn has to include combating other types of porn too, or it isn't likely to be effective.

@oldlace what is the tune to the song? Is there a YouTube link?

I was told off on here last week for insisting that even in a relationship breakdown, I still would not be trusting just anyone with my children. Trusting in a husband or ex fine, even then some may well be paedophiles. Many children are abused by their biological dad, let alone the massive amounts abused by stepdads.

I was making the point about not knowing the new partner, their family and friends. These people will be spending lots of time with your children, overnight and anytime really. If I don't know and trust them then they are not around my children.

An offender will offend in seconds and minutes when they spot an opportunity. They groom the people around them first, friends, parents etc before they groom the child. Usually very charming individuals, even the outwardly eccentric ones. But the vast majority are utterly friendly, nice people who hide an awful secret.

Yes sibling abuse is a thing and women do abuse but the vast majority more than 98% are men and the women who do so are usually victims themselves of these men, coerced or doing it to keep their man, (utterly repellent but still a man led behaviour. )

I don't care if people label me strange to be on guard and to safe guard my children, too many people are too relaxed. It's so prevalent, in too many societies and covid 19 lockdown has shown this. Femicide, rape and csa has peaked in so many countries. Greenland took steps as they already have a massive problem, new Zealand, South Africa, the UK, Mexico, Brazil, Argentina all large spikes on nos, to name just a few. Some countries literally have had 100s of more rapes and femicides.

We all need to be vigilant because yes op you are right, they are everywhere, doctors, politicians, social workers, teachers, delivery men, shop assistants, builders, family friends, cousins, brothers, uncles and fathers.

And never forget the lengths many go to to protect reputation and family, that's the role women play in this. Wives standing by their husbands and grandmothers/mothers closing ranks to protect sons, brothers and grandsons.

@Goosefoot it’s not child porn - that in itself normalizes it - it is child sexual abuse.

@Laiste

I agree with everything you contributed up thread.

I did some training many years ago when I lived in America that always stuck with me. The trainer had written a book about Paedophiles based entirely on interviews with sex offenders who were prepared to ‘be honest’. She told some very uncomfortable stories about how they would actively seek single mothers who were down on their luck and ‘help them out’. While they actually resented helping’ they would tell themselves the pay off would be worth it as they always had their sights set on the dc and were playing the long game.
Unfortunately, as your poor friend and her dd discovered, many of them admitted that they enjoyed the opportunist approach and sought out dc in the company of other adults within earshot etc.
These people are very manipulative, quite unlike the weirdo in the anorak.. they can be very well respected and confident socially.

for everyone.

I think it's important to be open that's it's largely in the family. My mum told all males her in/our life that she would harm them if they harmed us, which pissed a lot of them off but she was very much you can't hide, I will see you because anyone can be a threat. She also was very big on us being aware eg ask a doctor why he wants you to take your top off as opposed to feeling you have to defer to someone in authority.

Winesalot I was going to say the same thing. It's refreshing to hear that there are some parents who are quite "strict" about sleepovers. I am too. Fortunately, the sleepovers that DS have, only because they are long term friends, family members, I also stay over too.

Listen to the hunting warhead podcast and it will sadly open your eyes. Two american/canadian guys in their 20s masterminded one of the largest child abuse websites in US history. It had apparently a million subscribers all over the world. Both thank god are now serving life sentences thanks to a chance mistake one of them made but the seemingly respectable family of one of them refuses to accept that their adult son has any responsiblity for the monstrous acts he has committed.

I have had the misfortune of knowing a number of paedophiles personally. In each case they took on roles where they could get close to children - two were teachers at my school, two were teachers at other schools, three of them started working at a place where children tend to congregate (sports stadium). The final one worked for a body concerned with child safety and asked me to represent him as his union rep when he was dismissed for having indecent images of children on his laptop. I initially agreed because I was taken in by him - I thought I could 'recognise the type' from my knowledge of the others, all of whom had something a bit off about them. This guy was young, attractive, pleasant, openly gay, and seemed devastated, said he had been set up by an ex who downloaded the images when his laptop was in his home. The images were of girls - his homosexuality seemed to point away from him choosing those images. However as more evidence became available and the employer produced their evidence bundle with police statements and investigative notes, it became clear that he was lying to me so I walked away and stopped representing him. It sickened me to think i had been so easily taken in by a charismatic exterior and apparent desolation at the allegations, when really he was only devastated that he had been caught out.

I don't care if people label me strange to be on guard and to safe guard my children, too many people are too relaxed. It's so prevalent, in too many societies I completely agree with this. I’m actually sick of being criticized for being careful with my child. It’s like a disease, we have to stand really firm now to try and push it back, and with the internet and easy access to pictures and videos it seems that it has escalated.

Many kids are now approached online. And where I live I can see so many ways kids could be abused, families are very lax and let their kids play with whoever, at anyone’s house, all authority figures are given trust completely, and older children look after younger ones all the time. I won’t say where but I live somewhere where they have a terrible record for child abuse! People are very wary of letting their kids say explore, as if a stranger is going to jump out on them, but practically throw their kids out all day, on the computer unsupervised, and let stay with uncles, cousins, activity groups and sleepovers without batting an eyelid.

There are several ultra religious groups here, and extended families. I’ve personally been told by local friends of at least 3 who say they were abused by older cousins or uncles, or religious leader.

We need to wake up!

@kenandbarbie

I'd not looked it up before (an old friend just sang it to me and told me she thought it was from Canada). Just typed it into YouTube and there are a couple of versions, including one by Rolf Harris
FFS! - I nearly fell off my chair. This one is not very tuneful, but safe:

I think it's sad that innocent non-paedophile men can't enjoy hanging out with kids without being suspected of having sexual desires towards them, whereas a woman can without any such assumptions.

Sorry but for me this is dangerous permissiveness, and not safe thinking. Of course relationships with men can form, within safety. The risk is just too high to be relaxed around this though. I’m fine with visiting uncles, cousins, playing with my kids. They have fantastic relationships with male relatives, they had a male teacher, male sports coach. However I supervise, I’m around, or they are police vetted, they don’t go for special one to one trips or babysit.

A lot of what Laiste has said resonates with me, sadly. I behaved in a similar way, avoiding empty buses, trains, or at least being very wary and actually hopping off if I was the only one left or left with just another male passenger. Looking for other women to stand close to in a queue. Avoiding places, etc. I'd actually forgotten about doing all of that.

When I see children on their own in shops, I always keep an eye on them until I see them with their parent or an adult. I saw a little boy on his own in a supermarket last week, going from aisle to aisle. He seemed happy enough, but I wasn't and told a member of staff. She went over to him, but he ran away. She didn't do anything further, so I just kept him in my sight until he was back with his mum.

I don't understand sleepovers. You just don't know what goes on in other homes. My sister's friend was sexually assaulted by her friends father during a sleepover. She ran out of the house home and told her parents. He was arrested and prosecuted.

Yes, they are everywhere, I know this thanks to work.

What sickens me is that when I was little, we were taught about boundaries. Now, the agenda is to break down children's boundaries. Accept everyone, accept everything, don't kink shame anyone, don't trust your own body anymore, isn't is great how liberal we all are, let's talk about anal sex, let's innocently send children book lists which contain 'love has no age' propaganda. Let's lump all this stuff together and slip it into a movement which was designed to counteract prejudice in society.

On another note, my 3 year old's school work this week was to colour in a pair of pants, design some pants, describe the pants, come up with sentences involving said pants, and then post it on the school FB page. No thanks.

I think preventing men from being in contact with children at all is simply too heavy handed

The thing is, it's a really difficult problem to counter. As has been suggest on this thread, it's likely a biological thing that cannot be treated or cured. It's been occurring throughout history and in every location/context/situation you can imagine. And it's not some super-rare thing that only happens to a tiny minority.

So how do we protect out kids? We each have our own circle of "men we trust" and that is our right. For some women, it's ONLY their husband. For some it extends to their fathers and/or brothers. That's every mother's choice and besides that, I don't see any better alternative?

I'm certainly not depriving my kids of male role models. They have plenty of those. They just don't spend time completely ALONE with any of the ones outside our immediate family.

I just want to respond the the first reply on the thread, by @Wigglegiggle0520.

The whataboutery is quite astonishing. Women do not sexually offend at any rate that makes "and women" a sensible response to the OP. It is also worth mentioning that the cases reported in the media which involve women almost invariably have one or more men in the background coercing the female offender to support them in accessing children for men to abuse.

Anyway, don't take my word for it- see the official statistics.

They have fantastic relationships with male relatives, they had a male teacher, male sports coach. However I supervise, I’m around, or they are police vetted, they don’t go for special one to one trips or babysit

This. My daughter does Jiu Jitsu. She bloody loves it and her coach is a really great role model, in my opinion. Teaches her so much about discipline, focus, hard work, all while being very kind and understanding. I think he's great and I'm sure it's very unlikely that he's a paedophile. But would I let him spend any time alone with her? No. Does he ever need to, in order to be a fantastic role model to her? No.