To think that actually, there probably is a paedophile on every corner?

[MrsToadofToadHall]

When I first became a parent, back in the 2000s, I tended to think that some other parents were quite irrational about their fears regarding paedophiles. There seemed to be quite a lot of hysteria about child abductions whipped up in the tabloids, quite a few of the mums I knew looked very suspiciously on men who worked or volunteered with children, and I tended to think that although paedophiles unfortunately existed, they were in the minority and we shouldn't raise our children to be suspicious of every man just because he was a man, nor should we limit their independence due to fear of something that was very unlikely to happen. I suppose I was a bit "cool mum" and proud of my ability to rationalise and see through hysteria

In recent years, I've come to think that I was wrong. So many famous and prominent people have been exposed as having abused children and teenagers. Although I have always supported a certain level of sex ed in schools, elements of this have gone beyond a level I'm comfortable with. It seems to me to be more acceptable to expose children to sexual/adult issues at an earlier age. As well as this, recent revelations in my own fairly small community have caused me to reconsider - a teenager who abused younger relatives, it was brought to the attention of police and SS but in the end, all that could be done was refer him for optional counselling. Three or four men have been found out as they attempted to groom very young girls, some primary aged, via social media. Friends have also confided in me regarding their own childhood abuse. I know most of these men, and while I realise that abusers don't come with a big sticker on their forehead, most of them really were spectacularly ordinary and had wives and children

Obviously I still realise that the vast majority of men are fine, but my point is, I thought paedophiles were a few lone individuals, and now it seems there are far more of them about than I ever would have realised.

Does that make sense?

I haven't read all this thread as it's a bit triggering. But the stats are ( and have always been) that about 1 in 5 girls and 1 in about 8/10 boys in any average primary class are being sexually abused. By family/ known to family.
We live in a culture of minimisation and denial. Families cover up, which make you doubt your own experiences, or sanity, if you have experienced abuse.
And no amount of 'getting to know' our kids' friends parents will ever make you realise they are a paedo. How could you know?
Can I also categorically say women can also sexually abuse. Yes much less than men but no, not always at the behest of men. It just goes against our instinct to believe it can happen. Which again can fuck up those who experience it as they are met with denial of others. And no, female sexual abusers are also not mentally ill etc, just bog standard bad people, sexual abusers. Thanks for letting me get that out there!

Yes it’s far more common than we like to think. I know two in my extended family who were convicted and can think of a couple more who got away with it. I had a teacher at school who was almost certainly a
Oh and scarily a Doctor at our local hospital was struck off for grooming teenagers online.

The police woman investigating a (later convicted) paedo who worked in the nursery local to me informed me it is "everywhere".

1 in 5 girls In any class? That cannot be right...

Just a few years ago you'd have been absolutely mangled if you'd posted that on here.

I can imagine YgritteSnow as I was mangled for saying it IRL! My sister is currently pregnant with her first child, a little girl. It will be interesting to see if her views change in the topic. I hope so for my nieces sake.

My uncle did sexual stuff to me when I was 5. It carried on for years. My mum and dad told me I was attention seeking and ruining family holidays.

1 in 5 girls In any class? That cannot be right...

I’d say it was higher.

@TheVoiceOfReasonableness the problem with upping the ante to the death penalty (apart from as PP have said incentivising the offender to kill the victim) is that it disincentivises the victim to report. As has been said offenders are often family or close friends of the family; the relationship between victim and offender will rarely be one of straightforward fear and hatred - there may well be a lot of love there too (however dysfunctional) and a huge sense of reliance or obligation. A child might just about pluck up the courage to tell mummy what daddy did, even if it means daddy will go away, even go to prison; but will they if they know it may mean daddy will be killed? A lot of victims say that they don't speak up because they are scared of the fallout - their families breaking up, how much it will hurt their other relatives to find out. I'd rather more offenders were discovered,punished and closely monitored than a much smaller number were straightforwardly neutralised.

That's what I mean re denial ' that can't be right'. I think the stats are about 20% - 35% girls and 8-10% boys are abused, but is expected to be underestimated. Informative book that covers it all, and how people come to abuse children is by Finkelhor, D.
I'm not sure what the answer is to get people to open their eyes and believe it happens.

I am not however against chemical castration as s fundamental condition of release. Like you I don't believe it can be cured.

@roziro that's terrifying.

I would be interested to know why some people become abusers while others don't, i.e. is there something terrible that happens in there childhood or is it biological? Or maybe they're just assholes with no compassion or decency.

Can I also say, sorry, that no amount of 'teaching' your children not to let abusers abuse them will work all the time as a) its not the child's responsibility, it's the abuser's, they don't have the same awareness, or ability to second guess an adult abuser and their motives. b) the child's family will often say 'no don't be silly, you were mistaken, you misinterpreted, it was your fault etc etc and c) the abuser will always find a way round what you say to your child- it's a game, your mum said it was ok, I'll tell them you wanted it, you sat on my knee..and so on.

@TheVoiceOfReasonableness, I wonder are you a barrister......, my BIL is a judge and that is his preferred sentence that he only voices very, very privately having been a criminal barrister for years.

It definitely is the preferred final solution for the couple of barrister friends of mine.

They have zero tolerance for the arguments for non existent rehabilitation!

I think having dealt with awful cases over the years has left them completely unsympathetic to any arguments no matter how cogent.

I live in an extremely affluent urban setting and within 12 moths of moving here, I was informed I had a seriously convicted offender within 200 metres of my home in all 4 directions. Ffs.

3 were convicted within the family and one was of taking inappropriate pictures of his daughter's 9 year old friend.
I learnt this 21 years ago.
Absolutely horrified.

I believe them to be everywhere since.

@sqirrelfriends David Finkelhor and a colleague of his do a very good book and has written several articles etc.

I am a criminal barrister, I have spent a large part of my career prosecuting child abuse cases. They are a lot more prevalent than people think. I have regularly prosecuted fathers, step- fathers , uncles and brothers.
I have also prosecuted a number of cases that have happened during a sleep overs.

Every time I have a discussion with a police officer about the amount of images accessed on line, they say they can't keep up.

And then there all all of those who are not convicted, under the radar, with some families colluding.

@roziro thats spot on.I think female pedos get away with it a lot more because people think they are trustworthy.And its the men you have to be worried about.

You cant protect your kids at all times,and being over protective of your kids is not good either.

They dont learn the warning signs.

My mother was so over protective.Didnt allow me out,wasnt allowed friends.It just meant i wasnt equipped for everyday life.

Teach your kids to listen to their gut instinct,never go anywhere even if its someone they know.Unless you tell them they can go their face.

And its ok to be rude to an adult if they dont feel safe.

I mean not convicted as in not known to police yet, or not enough evidence to charge.

Yep, ray, I remember saying to my eldest, if one of daddy's friends, or someone else, were to turn up before me at school closing time and said mum asked them to pick you up, do not go. But it is impossible to think of every eventuality, incl at sleepovers etc.

I am just glad none of you, so far, have piled on in denial about women, as I've seen on other threads. Thank you.

I actively encourage my children to say no to adults, whether it’s asking for a cuddle or whatever.

Yes me too. I thought all parents had the good sense to do this these days, but they really don't

Was out for a walk with my DC and met my SIL with her DD(5) they were talking to a classmate of the 5 year old and his parents. SIL kept cajoling her DD to give the classmate a hug goodbye even though she clearly didn't want to. In the end the child relented after a stern look from her mother. I was pretty appalled tbh. I know he's a classmate and not a threat at five but this is how the "just be nice" socialization of girls starts. Never mind that they were supposed to be social distancing and SIL is a nurse!! She's usually a very sensible person but she was so worried about her daughter not appearing "nice" that her judgment went out the window.

It's everywhere. There's a little boy in my DDs preschool. He's a lovely little boy and loves giving hugs but quite often I've seen the little girls receiving the hugs are rooted to the spot, clearly uncomfortable. His mum, the little girls mum and even the teachers just stand around cooing "Awh so cute" and don't try to tell him to stop or encourage the girls to tell him to stop. It's pervasive and makes me despair.

@User1775836552

1 in 5 girls In any class? That cannot be right...

Of course it can. that's 20%. A class of 30 would be 3 girls. NSPCC research suggests around 20% of children are sexually abused, so it's probably (and very sadly) about right. (learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/statistics-briefings/child-sexual-abuse)

@User1775836552 I am no expert! I can only tell you what I did with my own dd:

Teach bodily autonomy - her body is here and nobody has the right to touch her ANYWHERE she doesn't want them to. I never made her kiss/hug anyone she didn't just naturally want to, teach the correct names for body parts, teach them bodily functions. To be comfortable but also protective of their bodies, when nudity is and isn't appropriate

Teach assertiveness - the word "no" is powerful and ALLOWED you can say no to anyone about anything that makes you feel unsafe/uncomfortable, you don't have to "be nice" to everyone

Teach self defence moves - vulnerable points, what moves/tools can be used, I dong mean obvious weapons but items we ordinarily carry - keys, umbrellas, bags, aerosol sprays

Being alert, risk assessment - who's around, are there people you could alert in an emergency, are you taking a well used and known route to get somewhere, is it well lit etc

But ultimately it's mainly down to you to protect your dc:

@Beefcheeks Nope! Still disagree! Realistically understanding that the majority of those who cause harm are men is NOT prejudicial it's fact! I did not "misunderstand" or "misinterpret" I plain consider your opinion WRONG!

Hence I ignore probability which is foolish at best, dangerous at worst

My point is just that one consequence of this is that the public is unaware of how often abuse happens within families. a point that could and should be made generally by the authorities and relevant charities etc without identifying victims.

Eg the govt could publish stats on percentage of convicted paedophiles annually who had victimised relatives

@TheVoiceOfReasonableness I sympathise with your view to a degree but I actually think that's too good for em! Lock em up for life in very basic conditions I say

@LavenderLotus exactly - we have several small islands that could easily be made into island prisons

but sound risk management and harm reduction is a noble aim and all we can do. no it's not, and I don't consider that an acceptable opinion to hold either.

It's unrealistic and impractical, recidivism rates for these offenders is very high.

If you'd said "unfortunately this is all we're allowed to do currently" that's one thing but to be so passive and defeatist is another thing

I actively encourage my children to say no to adults, whether it’s asking for a cuddle or whatever

This is one of my biggest bugbears. Having spent my childhood being forced to hug and kiss relatives I REALLY did not want to (including my absent parent that I saw once a week and hated spending time with) has made me militant in my opinions that children should never be forced into unwanted physical contact. They need to know they have a right to say no, and that it should be respected.

Just to follow up on the unattributed 1 in 5 statistic, the nspcc stats that I find suggests it’s 1 in 29 children. learning.nspcc.org.uk/media/1710/statistics-briefing-child-sexual-abuse.pdf

Which is obviously far far far too many. But is also quite a different estimate to one in five.