To wonder why statues of historical figures are being torn down

[Rosebyanothername19]

But no one is addressing the issues of modern day slavery and child labour? Surely slavery is slavery and needs to be wiped out. The current movement is Black Lives Matter due to inequality and excessive violence by police at the moment which needs to change, so why attack historic statues?

My husband and I were just talking about it and thought I'd ask. We may have missed something. I will admit that I haven't been watching/reading the news excessively.

Just to note, I fully support BLM and I'm not trying to goad or be disrespectful.

No idea what you are on about!

These threads are bloody horrible, (OP starting a deliberately faux "WHYYYY are people protesting about systemic racism and not sorting out X problem instead") and I don't know why MN leave them to stand.

No idea what you are on about!
History @Tadpolesandfroglets history

@Bluemoooon So... you think we should leave everything as it was because it was a different time? How is you not noticing anti-semitism in a book as a child relevant?

You sound nostalgic for your days growing up in a racist environment which on this thread is odd. To say the least.

No where did I say that - I'm pointing out that racism was everywhere pre 70s so singling out a few to be demonised is wrong. Comparing events in the past to modern day is wrong. This stuff is complex -statues need removed or moved but with discussion and explanation and debate so that it seems a national decision - this country is divided enough - do you really believe the way to go is to get gangs to pull them down with ropes because, apparently, you know best which should go ?

And I am nostalgic for a childhood where everyone got on - the malicious divides in society now, where everyone rips each other apart daily is depressing, I feel sad for my DGCs negotiating this throughout their lives.

And I am nostalgic for a childhood where everyone got on

The rose tinted glasses of recollection dont tend to be accurate

You think everyone got on in the 60s? Didn't you just say you grew up in a family of people complaining about Polish people?

Anyway, they tried discussion and petitioning and debate with the Bristol statue for at least 30 years and were ignored. Apparently you didn't read those posts.

‘And I am nostalgic for a childhood where everyone got on’- Except the racist people who hated all the blacks/ polish/ gypsies etc Sounds idyllic.

@Tadpolesandfroglets - you are still looking at things from a modern perspective.
No one hated blacks as there weren't any, Gypsies came round the houses begging or selling pegs that we didn't need when they passed through, working classes weren't full of respect and admiration for that but they came and went every so often.
Polish - I'm not sure, I think there was a feeling that they didn't do enough during the war, though with hindsight they didn't have much choice. Remember most adults men had fought in the war, had seen horrific things.
I'm sure underneath people didn't love each other but with no social media to rant anonymously, superficially everyone got on.

How is you not noticing anti-semitism in a book as a child relevant?

It was my school reading book btw.

@hammeringinmyhead why cant we call out the NHS for that? That's a terrible statistic! What is to stop that issue being raised and a demand for change. Its specific enough that it can be quantified and progress and improvement recorded and published. It's a win win for everyone surely?

Some of it is due to asylum seekers being scared of accessing care, and the 'hostile environment'. That part is not the fault of the NHS.

There are small differences in humans from different populations but all medicine is developed for white men first.

Because of the ugly spectre of 'eugenics' it is ignored unless it is something very obvious like pale skin burning in the sun before darker skin, or different blood groups. Occasionally you may come across 'racial variants' but they are all compared with 'white' eg an ECG from a black person in their 30s may resemble that of a white 15 year old, this is known as a 'normal racial variant'. Ok this is a physiological difference but why is it a 'variant' when the majority of the world's population isn't white?

This is the legacy of slavery and empire, the latest drugs and improvements in health care are developed in the USA and Europe. India and China manufacture drugs.

So are the 'lightening creams' that are sold in Asia and Africa. Women damaging their health to look more European.

Until 1985 not only was FGM legal in the UK it was sometimes performed by British surgeons in private hospitals.

The same hospitals used to arrange for 'living donors' to visit the UK from the third world countries so rich westerners could have a kidney without the inconvenience of travelling abroad.

There are lots of things that are legacies of our history, there have been and will continue to be changes in law, but these take time.

Taking down a statue says, "we are listening at last, we know this person made a fortune on the backs of slaves and we are sorry".

It's public, it's immediate and it sends a huge signal.

[quote Bluemoooon]@Tadpolesandfroglets - you are still looking at things from a modern perspective.
No one hated blacks as there weren't any, Gypsies came round the houses begging or selling pegs that we didn't need when they passed through, working classes weren't full of respect and admiration for that but they came and went every so often.
Polish - I'm not sure, I think there was a feeling that they didn't do enough during the war, though with hindsight they didn't have much choice. Remember most adults men had fought in the war, had seen horrific things.
I'm sure underneath people didn't love each other but with no social media to rant anonymously, superficially everyone got on.[/quote]
I think you're looking at things from a very local perspective.

There may not have been any black people where you lived when you were a child, but there were black people in the rest of the UK. We have been discussing the tearing down of a statue of a slave-trader (who died in 1721) all week. Where do you think some of those people ended up?

As this details, black people were in Bristol even before that. www.bristolmuseums.org.uk/stories/early-black-presence-in-bristol/

Because everything mattered and every little helps.
We are trying to dismantle a huge part of our society.
Racism & sexism are so ingrained into our culture, removing the threads of these will involve questioning and rebuilding pretty much everything we know.
I'm thrilled these statues are going, I want to have public symbols of hope & peace, not war and destruction.

Yes, I'm looking at things from a local perspective. I don't dispute that Edward Colston's statue should be removed - I was just making the point it isn't just one man. In the past everyone was racist.

So what? We're talking about taking them down, not whether or not they should have been put up in the first place!!

I think what you are saying is bonkers @Bluemoooon and mostly irrelevant.

Polish - I'm not sure, I think there was a feeling that they didn't do enough during the war, though with hindsight they didn't have much choice.

That must be a local thing, when I was a child Poles were admired for escaping and the flying planes in the RAF.

The first black people in Britain were probably roman soldiers, places like Liverpool and Tiger bay have had multicultural populations for hundreds of years.