To wonder why statues of historical figures are being torn down

[Rosebyanothername19]

But no one is addressing the issues of modern day slavery and child labour? Surely slavery is slavery and needs to be wiped out. The current movement is Black Lives Matter due to inequality and excessive violence by police at the moment which needs to change, so why attack historic statues?

My husband and I were just talking about it and thought I'd ask. We may have missed something. I will admit that I haven't been watching/reading the news excessively.

Just to note, I fully support BLM and I'm not trying to goad or be disrespectful.

How can you tackle systemic racism in our society without addressing that?

Why can we not take down statues as well as donating to the cause against modern slavery? Are you really genuinely saying BLM tackling racism against black people is hypocritical if they buy bananas?

Why not just run through the top ten things you’re doing to fight modern day slavery?

As it’s such a concern for you.

It would be rather more useful than your post,
I would have thought, and I can see you’re committed to useful action.

@hammeringinmyhead did you not read my post where I said I don't have an issue with statue removal.

Are you really genuinely saying BLM tackling racism against black people is hypocritical if they buy bananas?

Well you can misinterpret my point if you want...

Racism involves seeing "others" as less than you whether that's misplaced fear, ignorance, etc because you think you are superior.

Systemic racism runs throughout society & our economic model relies in part on seeing others as less then us. It's somehow ok for those "others" to not have the same rights as us in order for us (in the western world) to prosper.

I have no idea how to address it but I don't understand how to tackle systemic racism in western countries if we still see other populations as less then us?

Oh, don't worry, I read your post.

do you have anything else to contribute?

Not really. I might "misinterpret" your comments about how we "can't" tackle racism agaist black people without making surely absolutely nobody else is suffering.

@GoldenZigZag's post was excellent and sums up my point.

@hammeringinmyhead so you don't think racism & capitalism have any connection?

Malcolm X himself said you "can't have capitalism without racism" but ok.

I don't think it's fair to say we can't support BLM and publicly denounce the treatment black.people face in education, health care, and employment without calling Apple out for using too many temp workers in their Chinese factory at the exact same time.

But can we call out Jeff Bezos for "maximising his profits via the brutal exploitation of his low-paid workforce, 65% of whom in the US are from BAME backgrounds." and should we shop there or demand changes in order to shop there?

My point is how do you address & change the treatment black.people face in education, health care without examining the above. You can disagree with me but I believe they are intrinsically linked.

I'm confused. So do you agree with the OP on this?

It just annoys me when I see protesters talking about slavery whilst filming on phones and wearing clothes most probably made by modern day slaves.

Because that's the idea that I was (and others were) responding to. If you do, then you really are agreeing that the protestors are hypocrites.

I don't really know who "we" is, as you keep referring to.

In my case "we" is supporters of BLM, not "we" as in every member of Western society.

Its virtue signalling gone mad. Far easier to pull down historic statues than have the guts to confront the human traffickers in Turkey and the Balkans, the vile domestic helpers abuse in Saudi Arabia, the sex trafficking in London, the cocaine misery caused by Albanian gangs etc.

@hammeringinmyhead I will reply to your questions when you reply to mine, that fair?

I give up.

Sorry that was in reply to the "it's X gawn maaad" sentiment.

Yes, Bristol City Council should absolutely do something about Jeff Bezos before deciding not to reinstate the statue.

This is just clear whataboutery. And it stems from the devaluing of black lives. How DARE we talk about black history and oppression, alone, as its own issue of importance?

It's like a Jewish group pulling down a statue of someone instrumental in the Holocaust. How many then would say 'we have to preserve history' and 'we should be focusing on modern day genocides', and talk of 'vandalism'.

No.

The slave trade matters. Black history matters. The legacy of trauma continues. The legacy of devaluing black lives and pain continues.

Black lives matter.

And to address the OP....

But no one is addressing the issues of modern day slavery and child labour? Surely slavery is slavery and needs to be wiped out.

This is about black oppression. Slave master statues are a symbol of black oppression.

The current movement is Black Lives Matter due to inequality and excessive violence by police at the moment which needs to change, so why attack historic statues?
Because these problems stem directly from this history.

If you're so 'confused', go and educate yourself about the history of black people in the West. YouTube has it all. You do not have enough knowledge on the subject to form an opinion that matters, but you do have access to that knowledge.

Massive whataboutery which is obviously intended to undermine BLM.

You can care about more than one thing at once. And lots of people are campaigning to end modern economic inequality.

What device have you composed your OP on, OP? Who made that? Who made the clothes you're wearing now? You may need to remove the plank from your own eye.

This is just clear whataboutery. And it stems from the devaluing of black lives. How DARE we talk about black history and oppression, alone, as its own issue of importance?

Yep, it's the subtle but very deliberate running down of BLM by people with a different agenda to push.

Slavery linked statues need to come down. But I would guess that much of British middle class were invested in the slavery business at the time ie our not very distant ancestors. There weren't just a few baddies.
In the past the British were christian, church going, charity donating, and considered themselves good people, and so the non christians ie in India, Africa, were uneducated heathens. Not naturally deserving of respect I suspect.
I feel that judging history by todays standards is wrong. Because it let's people off education themselves as to why things might have been as they were.
Most people would have been racist at the time that Churchill is being criticised for.
Many were racist when I was young, in the 60s. But I've only realised that long after my childhood. At the time it was just how it was.

‘At the time, it was just how is was’ doesn’t mean it wasn’t wrong or shouldn’t be highlighted or called out. Many people at the time knew it was wrong and campaigned against it, otherwise it wouldn’t have changed.

History was a terrible and violent place. Fact. It was ALL awful. For pretty much everyone.

‘At the time, it was just how is was’ doesn’t mean it wasn’t wrong or shouldn’t be highlighted or called out. Many people at the time knew it was wrong and campaigned against it, otherwise it wouldn’t have changed.
@Tadpolesandfroglets
Well calling everyone a racist now, me included, because the adults around me when I was little talked with a disparaging tone about local former refugees, eastern europeans (possibly former prisoners of war who didn't want to go back to a russian run state) or polish who didn't want to go back to Poland etc etc etc. Is pretty annoying. I can call it out as racist but if you want racism look at how Russia was treating it's new citizens at that time,what was happening to the millions of stateless Jews. But he ho, call me a 5 year of age racist if it makes you feel better. In fact call all 5 year olds in 1959 racists if it makes you feel good. You being such a fine person, of course, living in a different time with different knowledge.

On another thread about 'books you read as a child' I've just posted this---
I've just looked up The Water Babies by Charles Kinsley which was a school book when I was in primary school around 1963 and I found it very sad.

• a quote from Wiki--

• In the style of Victorian-era novels, The Water-Babies is a didactic moral fable. In it, Kingsley expresses many of the common prejudices of that time period, and the book includes dismissive or insulting references to Americans,[4] Jews,[5] blacks,[6] and Catholics,[7] particularly the Irish.[8][9] These views may have played a role in the book's gradual fall from popularity

Wow, not the bits that I remember!
I remember it being a sad story about a drowned boy - all the rest went over my head.