To wonder why statues of historical figures are being torn down

[Rosebyanothername19]

But no one is addressing the issues of modern day slavery and child labour? Surely slavery is slavery and needs to be wiped out. The current movement is Black Lives Matter due to inequality and excessive violence by police at the moment which needs to change, so why attack historic statues?

My husband and I were just talking about it and thought I'd ask. We may have missed something. I will admit that I haven't been watching/reading the news excessively.

Just to note, I fully support BLM and I'm not trying to goad or be disrespectful.

Yeah, but Spacey won't be in the "Sadly missed" reel at the Oscars the year he dies, will he?

@Rosebyanothername19

Right so both your examples are still alive and were affected by the punishments and fall in public opinion. The statues dont care for their reputation and toppling them doesnt change anything. It just creates more division.

How does it create division? You seem to care a lot more about these cold metal statues than about the actual issues at hand.

Where do you stand on the statue of Jimmy Savile that was taken down in 2012? Was that censoring history?

I reckon the OP would say Oh, but those kids are still alive so that's different.

@Rosebyanothername19

Right so both your examples are still alive and were affected by the punishments and fall in public opinion. The statues dont care for their reputation and toppling them doesnt change anything. It just creates more division.

Jimmy Savile statue. Taken down in 2012 as his crimes hit the public eye.

Taking the statue down didn't change anything and the late Savile didn't care on account of being dead.

Should we have left it up?

Funny that because everyone in the weOP why does it bother you statues are being torn down? You probably didn't even notice they were there in the first place.

Why would anyone protest FOR a statues of someone who trafficked people and enslaved them be kept up?

It's bizarre to me, funny how people are all of a sudden saying history shouldn't be erased but somehow a lot of black history seems to be erased, and no one gives a shit about that.

How would you feel if there was a statue up of jimmy saville? Or Gary Glitter? Should we leave it because they are 'part of music history'?!

No we shouldn't because they are VILE men that did vile things

@Forcesmum123

Many of the statues actually censor history.

Edward Colston is a good example, his statue and plaque ignored that he was a slaver responsible for thousands of death, but commemorated the "true" story of a friendly dolphin saving Colston's shit by blocking a leak with its snout. Children were taught this as fact in some schools around Bristol.

wWe've made a habit of censoring our history to create narratives of heroism where the truth is actually, at best, often more complex. Re-examing that is more about acknowledging history, rather than
censoring it.

I dont give two hoots about most statues. I'd never even heard of the Bristol one until it was toppled. I just think that if you're going to give the reasoning that he was a slaver and use that as justification, maybe look to the modern day where it is still happening.

saving Colston's shit
Oops, saving his ship.

forcesmum123

P.S. the really interesting thing about the Bristol statue is that it didn't reflect the culture when it was first erected.

Firstly, Colston died in 1721
The transatlantic slave trade, as in kidnapping and selling people who weren't born into slavery, was banned in the British empire in 1807
The slavery abolition act which freed people already enslaved within the British empire was passed in 1834
The statue on Bristol was erected in 1895. It was crass at the time it was erected.

Secondly, the man who proposed the statue had great difficulty fundraising for the statue, despite running the Victorian equivalent of bake sales for it. He initially expected everyone with money in Bristol to chip in and they... didn't. Victorian Bristolians just didn't want to fund the statue of a slave-trader 60 years after slavery had been been illegal so he had to fund far more of it than he'd planned.

I want to know why these statues of awful people are allowed to be put up in the first place. Many of them have been there many years too.
I accept things were different back then (I dont agree) but why has it taken something like this current situation to get them down?

It's about rejecting what the statues represent. We can learn from history yes, in a museum or a history book - not by having statues that were made to celebrate and glorify those tyrants on our streets as decoration

So basically what we are saying is that we can ignore the fact that this is still going on, as long as there isn't a physical reminder for us to see everyday...

Because it’s not on the front pages/being pushed by talentless shlebs/sheep can only concentrate on one shines object/hashtag at once.

Anyone who is rational would see tackling present day issues is more important than tearing down or defacing statues in pure anachronistic hysteria.

It’s the same reason people aren’t making the same noise about the rights of any of the other majorly disadvantaged groups. If I threw stones through the local church’s windows because Christianity’s role over millennia in subjugating women (let’s just blame them for every sin of mankind and punish them by excruciating pain in childbirth - and that’s just the first couple of pages of the bible), I would be dragged off to court and met with horrified cries.

Appeasing the mob.

@Rosebyanothername19

So basically what we are saying is that we can ignore the fact that this is still going on, as long as there isn't a physical reminder for us to see everyday...

Yes, that is definitely the point we are all making. Look at the clever paradox you think you have pointed out! Well done you.

@Rosebyanothername19

So basically what we are saying is that we can ignore the fact that this is still going on, as long as there isn't a physical reminder for us to see everyday...

OK you are being deliberately obtuse now. Yes that obviously what we are all saying

Back to Jimmy Saville.

Obviously paedophilia, rape and sexual abuse remain rife in the UK and throughout the world. OP, should we have waited to take the statue down until those particular problems were solved worldwide?

@Rosebyanothername19 - please explain why you are equating slavery to modern day slavery? How do they compare, in your mind? You seem really fixated on people being able to care about only one thing at a time - how dare you get angry enough to topple an iron tribute to a slaver yet not care about this issue. You're sounding a bit more ridiculous with every post.

BLM is about racism and white supremacy. I'm not even sure to what extent modern slavery is relevant to that conversation.

@llamahammock no but firstly what he was doing was wrong at the time he was doing it (by the days standards) and secondly it still goes on so nothing has changed.

Acts of vandalism rarely help anyone or anything and just removing the statues isnt going to make the blinders bit of difference. That is the point I'm trying to make.

@GreytExpectations sorry. There are just a lot of people arguing that they dont want to look at the statues anymore and be reminded which seems counter productive.

[quote Rosebyanothername19]@GreytExpectations sorry. There are just a lot of people arguing that they dont want to look at the statues anymore and be reminded which seems counter productive.[/quote]
It's not counter productive. It seems your argument is though

I think all the charities and police initiatives targeting modern day slavery and gang masters/forced labour would take your post as a bit of a kick in the teeth op. It’s not the case at all that “no one” is paying attention to it.

Here’s some information to help if you think someone is a victim of modern day slavery:

www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/spot-the-signs-of-slavery/

www.modernslaveryhelpline.org/

Because every revolution started with;

“Sorry to bother you.. You know that really offensive [insert word here]? Well the people really don’t think it’s right. Would you mind awfully, just, you know, not doing that anymore? Gosh, that’s great, thanks!”

@GreytExpectations really? How? I genuinely came here to find out why people thought toppling statues would help anything and being so in uproar about exploitation by historical figures and not by present day ones. I'm sorry if my posts have offended you. I'm just trying to understand.