PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

The thing is a farce. I'm glad we had been told by someone to consider the process as "apply, get rejected, manual reconsideration, rejection, appeal" before my DD turned 16 as it made the impact of the application being rejected much easier on her.

She has narcolepsy with cataplexy that is very poorly controlled. For various reasons she sees 3 specialists and a mental health nurse. They all wrote reports for her application detailing the restrictions her conditions have put on her life and the care she needs. We had specialist help filling in the form because I was worried about being too used to filling in a DLA form and I know they are different. When it got to the appeal point the panel called us on the morning to say we didn't need to attend as they had read through the papers and felt there was more than enough information to grant her both components at a level we were happy with. They had asked for no extra information so purely on the basis of what the decision maker had.

It was turned down originally on the basis of the report of a barely literate physio who decided that because DD knows she may have cataplexy it is "predictably unpredictable". They also said that because she can plan journeys she didn't qualify for the mobility section. She's a smart teenage girl - she can use google, national rail enquiries and ebookers until her heart is content, but she can't go out alone because she has no idea when she's going to deck it. Not much point planning journeys you can't sodding do. They also stated that she arrived alone - lies. That she can drive - she was 16 so another lie. That she walked up a flight of stairs - lies. They also said she was "bright and alert" through the whole face-to-face and failed to mention the fact she had one cataplexy episode during the meeting.

It then took the DWP 10 weeks to actually accept the ruling of the appeal panel as they were considering appealling the appeal. I firmly believe from everything I've heard from other people in her support group that that is a tactic designed purely to make people say "I can't deal with this, forget it".

The problem is that almost everyone applying for PIP do so because they believe their circumstances meet or should meet the criteria.

So you're not to get many people turned down thinking 'yeah, that's fair enough, my circonstances are not as as as I thought'.

People thinking the award was wrong is not the sane as them being wrong. Many are awarded at appeal because the onus is on the assesor to evidence that the award is correct and a lot of times, the resources required to gather it is not cost effective, so people won appeals by default rather than proving the award was wrong in the first instance.

This doesn't take away from the fact that some are definitely wrong, and some appeals are won because the case was truly shameful in the first place, or there had been maladministration.

We really can't draw any generalisations.

I get some people telling me they think that they should meet the PIP criteria because they have certain conditions. It's not always true. I am honest about their chances and ask a LOT of questions.
In Scotland, the SG will be taking over PIP. ( delayed due to Covid19).I have been on their panel and they have asked for input from a lot of organisations/disabled people/ Welfare Rights etc. It appears to be much fairer and treats people with Dignity and respect but we shall see.

They ask people registered blind to read an opticians chart

They really do seem to come from the starting point everyone's a benefits cheat don't they.

Why do I keep getting PIP for 2 years when I have a life long condition (epilepsy) that’s never going away and affects me in the same way all the time. I just can’t understand it.

I agree with lyra just think of appeals as the final stage..Enbarrassed if that happens again you could challenge that part by sending it to appeals perhaps

Saying this as someone who has been to appeals twice and won from having useless assessments, finally had an apology from DWP this time and a 5 yr award

I sat in with a client for a PIP assessment. The lady had multiple spinal fractures and could barely move without pain. The assessor made her hold onto a door frame and bend down which caused her agony. Despite me telling her not to do anything that would cause her pain, she still tried and I was told to " shush" by the assessor. Disgraceful. My team ( funded by a large cancer charity ) spend most of their time fighting for clients to get the correct awards - recent example a young girl with leukemia having intensive chemotherapy, extremely poorly for over a year in and out of hospital awarded nothing. FFS !! She won enhanced rates at appeal but yes had to wait a year for that money which could have been extremely useful to her and her family whilst she was going through what can only be described as the worst time of her life, actually fighting for her life. Charitable money is having to be used to pay people in my team to spend time writing appeals for people where the bloody decision should have been obvious. This charity that funds us is now facing a 100 million pounds shortfall in fund raising revenue ( as many charities are ) and I despair at what will happen to these people if our jobs are cut and there isn't this help available. we also had a man who due to cancer his weight had dropped to 5 stone, his assessors report stated he looked well nourished. He died before his appeal came to tribunal. Despicable.

I also had a friend who worked as a PIP assessor - she ended up virtually having a breakdown with the pressure put on her by CAPITA.

quietheart

What I'm trying to say is that you could have a consultant with 20 years specialists experience in the condition they are assessing for PIP, but that specialist knowledge wont make a difference to the very rigid criteria.

What I listed is not my understanding, it is how you are taught to write assessments and it is how the auditors are taught to look at the assessments, the diagnosis plays an extremely minimal part in this, an auditor will look at an assessment and say "I dont agree with your assessment as this person does not take strong analgesia and is able to work part time on the check out tills there for this discounts everything you have wrote, please deduct points". Often what you see on the report isnt even what the assessor has written as it goes through auditors and will sometimes be given to managers to edit.

This isn't me agreeing with it, I don't. The issue isnt the experience of the assessors, its that basically if you don't fall neatly into the tick boxes with the PIP approved criteria then it's very difficult to justify scoring someone and itll just get bounced back if you try.

Dont think shes comng back?

I wont say assessors are perfect as it's obviously always the case, in my office there were 7 of us and one person did seem to particularly get a thrill out of declining people and seemed to act as if the money was coming out of her pocket.

The rest of us it wouldn't be uncommon for us to gather and discuss a case that has particularly gotten to us and didnt meet criteria to try and find ways in which we can get the reports past the auditors. And if it failed we would go to each other for support. Where I worked there was a 70% turnover in staff in one year for a reason.

Also as I mentioned that we are put under expectations, if we are scoring over a certain % we get put under review which is not a nice process, and we have senior staff sit and watch our assessments and tell us where we are over scoring and if we basically don't get our percentages right we are out of a job.

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/nursing-body-failed-to-deal-fairly-with-pip-assessment-complaints-says-regulator/

She won enhanced rates at appeal but yes had to wait a year for that money which could have been extremely useful to her and her family whilst she was going through what can only be described as the worst time of her life, actually fighting for her life.

The nonchalant attitude to backdated money enraged me. Yes, if you have to wait 12-18 months for a decision at appeal you get the money back, but you can’t backdate lost independence due to the loss of a mobility car, or loss of a bus pass or loss of access to groups.

My DD went to a teen group where she could be “normal”. They were able to access a fund where they got some money to pay someone for a couple of hours to travel with her. Yes, she wasn’t a “normal” teen who could go alone, but for once she didn’t need Mum with her. However, they could only access that if she had a live DLA or PIP award.

It’s far too much of a cop out to say “oh sorry, but you’ll get the money in a nice lump sum if you pass”.

the saddest thing is that the most vulnerable would probably give up

@Orangeblossom78

the saddest thing is that the most vulnerable would probably give up

I firmly believe that’s exactly the point.

I know three people who used to get DLA and who clearly should get PIP who have given up.

One is doubly incontinent, has seizures and limited use of their dominant hand after a brain injury and they won’t allow their family to apply for them because they were utterly humiliated the last time. It’s shameful.

I am currently acting as an appointee for an autistic, very vulnerable adult with several disabilities. They have been completely fobbed off by social services too and if it weren't for me, would be left to struggle on their own, but that's a whole different thread.

Anyway I made an initial application for PIP on 1st May and finally received the full application form last Friday - 6 WEEKS LATER! This was after numerous phone calls chasing up the forms and spending hours and hours on hold.

This person was previously in receipt of DLA and had been for many years. When it was replaced with PIP they duly made an application and were turned down scoring zero on every section! Due to their vulnerability they did not have the strength to fight the decision which then had huge ramifications on their life.

They told me that so many lies were made up by the assessment officer. This is wrong, it's corrupt even and reading this thread, it seems to be rife! Anyway I will make damn sure that they don't screw this person over again because they are exactly the type of person whom this benefit was designed to help. The whole system sounds fucked imo.

Cauterize thank goodness for incredible people such as yourself, and others posting on here, speaking up for those who can't.

They seem to be doing phone interviews instead of visits atm which sounds like a new can of worms

What the government will never admit to is the fact that due to appeals & mandatory reconsiderations, it actually costs more money to not pay the correct award straight away than to get everything right first time. The assessment companies are paid millions to do the assessments, assessors are paid bonuses for failing claimants, the complaints process is a joke, my MP complained on my behalf about my assessment, she wouldn't let me see the reply she got because she thought it would tip me over the edge it was so bad. 70% of appeals are won by the claimant, the DWP fail claims & mandatory reconsiderations in the hope claimants will give up.

If you need help with the PIP process or appeals, you do not need to pay to get help, look for a support group for your conditions if you can, most have a welfare rights worker who can help you, mine helped me to fill in the forms, attended the assessment with me, did my mandatory reconsideration & helped me to complete the appeal application, she would have attended the appeal with me if I had needed to attend.

Nat6999

There are many things wrong with the PIP process but the assessors are not given bonuses for failing people, that's a myth.

When I worked there it wasn't bonuses but you had a yearly performance review and received a pay increment based on your performance rating. Targets, for example keeping your award claims under a certain percentage, were part of the performance assessment so at that time there was a financial incentive to hit those targets. As I say though, that may have changed now.

I didn't last a whole year but I left about 6 months ago and I got the impression pay rises were given to those mainly threatening to leave after being there a long time. The targets when I were there were used more as a scare tactic as if you didn't meet them you would be put under audit and risk losing your job.

The only cash bonuses we received once was if the whole team assessed a certain amount of claimants in a month we got to share 1 grand across the team (which worked out about 60 quid each) and to achieve that we would all have to see 5 people a day with no exceptions for a month (we didn't manage it)

You just have to see it like a legal case- unless you have the best evidence ever they will challenge it and make a case against you.

And try and not take it personally. I have been on PIP since 2014 and since then had two reassessments. Mistakes at every stage. Got there in the end but of course they stop it while you appeal

Just keep giving the facts, get someone to help if you can, and point out all the mistakes.