PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

I think that 60% decisions get overturned on appeal because sensible educated people on the appeal panel don't have an agenda other than to decide on the evidence before them.

I accompanied a relative to their f-2-f interview and completed the form and provided all the evidence on their behalf. Unfortunately I forgot to remind them about taking ID so my relative just had to tell the receptionist their NI number. It didn't stop the 'assessor' from stating my relative handed over papers to her. (They didn't hand over anything at any point as they didn't have any paperwork with them). I had a copy of everything with me and didn't hand over anything either. That was the first and least worrying lie in the person's assessment.

In my case, the DM sent the report back for rework to the assessor, which did not make much difference, so the result was the same

Then after a very long and stressful wait at MR, which was also terrible, and it went to appeal a lady rang from the appeals section at PIP apologising and completely changing the award

How does it go so wrong? It seems to me they only alter it at appeals stage and put you off till then- meaning some of the most vulnerable people will be put off.

Let's be clear I'm not the person that does the assessments. I'm the person that receives the report and reads all the other evidence and decides on whether the report is fit for purpose. Quite often it isn't. I can't speak for other people. When it comes time to review your claim I more often than not extend people without the need for another assessment quite often for a number of years. We're only human at the end of the day. I think we're better qualified than the assessors as we seem to have more empathy and are not doing the decision just based on cold clinical evidence. We do research, we read a lot of stuff and we contact the customers or medical professionals for extra information.

Also we don't decide if people can work or not that is ESA. You can work and claim PIP.

In my experience the majority of claims do not go to MR stage or appeal stage. It only seems that way because they're they ones you hear about. No one ever talks about the first time successful claims or the ones that get extended at review for many years etc. It's like complaints against any company you only mostly hear about the bad experiences.

Good thread. My daughter was very ill and got turned down. It was never explained as to why. I got the impression that because she could walk and lift her arms then she was fine. Is that the case?

If you work where I think you do, be careful how much information you disclose here OP.

Bookoffacts did you send in evidence?

Where do I work?

Why choose the user name Owmyback to answer questions on being a PIP Decision maker? Do you actually have a bad back, or is it a bit of a piss take?

What do you say about the recent Panorama programme, where the culture within the DWP for PIP Decision Makers, was presented as very dismissive of people with certain conditions?

I'm honestly only trying to be helpful. I know people worry. I'm not giving away information that isn't already out there.

I've had my username for a while.

'I think we're better qualified than the assessors as we seem to have more empathy and are not doing the decision just based on cold clinical evidence.'

Ah right you're not an assessor you just read the report from someone who doesn't have a grasp of some basic medical terminology?

I'd like to know why the whole process takes you all so long, should time management be included in your training do you think?

How can you make a decision if the person does not have any medical professionals involved to provide evidence?

I am autistic and have a circadian rhythm disorder. I have diagnoses of both. But the diagnostic reports/letters don't go into detail of how it affects my life; only the basics of how I meet the diagnostic criteria (which is minimal compared to the rest of the impact on me, especially the topics that are relevant to claiming PIP).

There is no NHS/council support for autistic adults in my area unless you are clearly incapable of living alone. We are just left to get on with it.

So although I have many challenges, which I have gone into detail on the application form about, there is no HCP who can verify this. And even if there was; they'd only be repeating what I've told them anyway; I don't see how this makes it any more likely to be true as it still relies on me not lying in the first place.

So no doubt my PIP is going to be refused, even though I meet the criteria. How is it possible to make a fair decision for people like me, who fall through the cracks of the system?

Why do DM not read all the information sent with the application? I sent loads of proof of my condition when I applied, had to attend an assessment, the assessor was awful, lied about seeing me walk, she was in the room with the door shut when I walked so couldn't see me struggling, almost falling & having to lean on the wall because I was in pain. I did an MR as they were taking my car & reducing my daily living to standard, no change, applied to appeal & then got my enhanced awards back a week after my car had gone back on the strength of a piece of evidence I had already sent in, the lady who rung me told me they don't read everything when you apply.

Before you ask, both myself & my MP complained both to the assessment company, the DWP & I reported the assessor to the NMC, they all closed ranks despite my MP taking the case to the parliamentary group for PIP complaints.

As you know some assessors lie in the paperwork ( my first one did and I had to go to tribunal), can you contact the applicant's GP or consultant etc? Seems to me the only 'medical' opinion you can see is that of the assessor, which is based on one brief appointment and may or may not quite true.

Really appreciate and commend you starting this thread OP, as there are so many skewed views of the role of benefit decision makers, I know from personal experience. Unfortunately you will get quite a few people on here getting rather irrational and intent on blaming the whole benefit process on you - see previous 'how do you sleep at night' comment

I think it's brave though and could be interesting to many people.

'few people on here getting rather irrational and intent on blaming the whole benefit process on you - see previous 'how do you sleep at night' comment '

If you start a thread then people will share their negative opinions. If I said I was a traffic warden or a tax inspector I'd expect the same.

Are there any targets and / or associated benefits to assessors with regards to numbers of successful claims versus denied claims? And if so do you think this may influence any aspect of their decision making?

True. Though surely it's understood that individuals that happen to work for the DWP aren't inventing the rules, deliberately inflicting worry or disappointment on claimants? Asking how someone sleeps at night is ridiculous and at best naive. If there were no benefit processors/decision makers then benefits wouldn't get paid. The strength of the workforce behind paying vulnerable customers is largely unseen but during the last few months has moved mountains to do just that.

How long are MRs taken?

Asking because the assessment centre report was very wrong to the point when I called PIP who wrote the decline letter to me, the man had a quick review of my evidence and confirmed it wasn't used. Appealed and paperwork received for MR on 29th March and nothing since. No timescales either. Initially applied 18th October

'If the assessor lied you have to take that up with the assessment providers as they're a separate company and have their own complaint procedure.'
If I received MR requests stating that Capita or whoever had lied, I would feel a responsibility to feed that back to someone much higher up in DWP who could do something about it.
Do you feel there should be a statement in the award letter informing applicants of who to contact if they have a problem with the contents of it in addition to telling you to request an MR?

"They may speak to the original person I'm not entirely sure if they do or not. I would hope they do"
Why don't you know about the process?

"We have no control over the letters and how most of it is worded unfortunately."
Who does have control over the wording?

"I don't know what medical qualifications they need to have.'
Why don't you know? Have you never asked? The answer, according to the person who conducted my relative's first PIP f-2-f , when asked if they had qualifications in a mental health field, was that "I am not medically qualified but I am qualified in how to complete this form."
Says it all really.

"we do send it back for a rework and quite often we disagree with them and we do try our very best to get the best outcome for everyone."

Everything you write sounds do reasonable. But you must be in cloud cuckoo land.

There's tonnes and tonnes of evidence to prove what you are saying isn't true.

There's videos, investigations and newspaper articles listing people who have been misquoted. Lied about. Misquoted. Belittled and lied. No case. Finally after stress, case overruled.

You must know this. Pip is disgusting. Cleverly bought in by the previous government. Trick. Failed most of the needy recipients who it has now denied.

How you can not see this staggers me?

Interesting you don't mention the thousands of people who do get paid, week in week out. That never hits the papers though of course.