PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

I think some come across 'vile' as they are sick of their lives and have just adjusted to doing their job in a very robotic way. When I was an assessor I couldn't get through a single day without being shouted abuse at, happened a lot that someone would show up absolutely off their face drunk, many times I had to physically escort people out as they were so hammered, I had to raise my alarms many times due to threatening behaviour and about 80% of claimants would have a 20 minute aggressive rant at me about the system before I get chance to even open my mouth...dealing with that alongside knowing that you only have an 30 mins till the next claimant comes in can cause you to come across a bit stern, and its hard to remain bubbly in those circumstances, though I did try my best.

I personally never saw anyone display such overtly rude behaviour such as shutting doors in faces or laughing at someone, but theres no excuse for that if it happens.

Blahblooblah
You seem a genuinely decent person thank you for explaining what you have so far.
The last assessment I had the assessor insulted me at the end then actually stood and stared me right in the face with a look on her face as if challenging me? God knows. I was shocked I just stood gawping at her. You hear about assessors saying you’re uncooperative or aggressive and having your money stopped so you don’t say dare anything. Of course you don’t see or hear these things there’s only the assessor and the claimant in the room.
If someone turns up drunk they’re sent away? What if they’re an alcoholic? What if they’re a drug addict and high? Surely they still have to go to the assessment?
What you said about the reports is very interesting. Could be why some of them are so contradictory in places if random bits are being altered.

Thank you Unforgettablefire

I can't think of a reason for that. I doubt it was anything personal maybe they had just adopted a very challenging way of asking questions as their most effective way of getting the assessment done quickly. Not professional or appropriate either way.

So you are allowed to be drunk / high in your assessment, but you have to be composed enough to at least answer some questions, if you are past that point and can't form any coherent sentences then they'll get sent away (Unless they have someone with them to talk for them). It takes a lot to have to turn down someone for an assessment as apparently it's bad for the 'figures' to have to turn people away. The only rule they were somewhat strict on is no alcohol or drugs on the premises which surprisingly was an issue quite often.

I was asked by an assessor why hadnt I killed myself yet, thats not something Im ever going to forget

You hear about assessors saying you’re uncooperative or aggressive and having your money stopped so you don’t say dare anything

^^This

In my personal experience, people tend to fill in the forms themselves, do not compare what they can/can’t do to the scoring system and just write a load of (irrelevant to the criteria) waffle so It gets rejected.

They then often seek help at CAB who assist with the mandatory reconsideration who tailor the appeal form to the criteria it’s actually assessed against.

Further, I also think they have an policy to reject nearly all of them automatically initially to weed out who can be bothered to follow it through or those who will give up at the first hurdle.

@Jimdandy

How some people filled the form was definitely a big issue. If someone filled in irrelevant information in every box it annoys the assessor as they have to address it and write a statement that discounts it, therefore this takes away time to address the important stuff. We all used to comment how refreshing it was when you saw a pip2 form that was correctly filled in and how much easier it is to score them.

The most common sections people would get 'wrong' were;

Eating and drinking - people putting lack of appetite. You only generally score for needing prompting to eat if you have a diagnosed eating disorder and have a care plan relating to food and specialist input. In my whole 11 months I worked there I was never able to score prompting for food. I tried a few times but then it got bounced back.

Medications - a lot of people with physical conditions, most commonly fibromyalgia as they report it's due to fibro fog would say they forget. To claim anything to do with forgetfulness you have to have medical evidence of a memory or cognitive impairment.

Reading - A lot of people put concentration, this is just not considered and you can never get points for poor concentration. Reading in general is really hard to score for even for learning disabilities as their idea of a complex sentence is one sentence. So unless someone has a scriptor at school or significant input for their LD and a lot of evidence to say they can't read one sentence then they won't get anything.

Communication - a lot of people get this confused with engaging and mention being withdrawn. That doesn't apply here, it means your technical ability to speak and hear and how you feel about talking plays no part.

Managing finances - A lot of people with physical health problems say they find this quite stressful so get help. Again you have to have evidence of having a cognitive or mental health condition with relevant treatment and input to try and claim for those reasons.

Planning journeys - A lot of physical health people mention the technicalities of going out alone e.g needing someone to push their wheelchair or keep them steady but this isn't considered and will be better addressed under mobility.

People who claim for issues such as anxiety, it has to he significant to the point you have uncontrolled panic attacks in public that can only be managed by someone else supporting you and you need a lot of evidence to back this up, e.g doctors do home visits for this reason and you have PRN anxiety medications.

This isn't me having a go for filling them in wrong, and they usually are all valid issues, just not valid in the eyes of PIP.

Before I worked in this role I would have filled them in the same probably, we know it isnt common knowledge how the criteria works. However if anyone happens to be reading this who has an assessment pending I'd take this as advice as it does make it significantly easier to score points if you fill it in consistently with the criteria.

In my whole 11 months I worked there I was never able to score prompting for food. I tried a few times but then it got bounced back.

Why is this question asked in the assessment then?

My 18 yo Dc applied for PIP, and I was dreading the process, the outcome etc.

As it happened, it was all dealt with very quickly, fairly and efficiently. The assessment report was detailed, and payment prompt.

A much easier process than applying for my Mum’s Blue Badge for her.

@JustAnotherPoster00

I was asked by an assessor why hadnt I killed myself yet, thats not something Im ever going to forget

You hear about assessors saying you’re uncooperative or aggressive and having your money stopped so you don’t say dare anything

^^This

Me too but I was asked “so what’s preventing you” Like you don’t feel a failure enough already.

Pets can help with mental health they’re even used in care settings and people have therapy pets. But I dare not have one now after being marked down because we had an old family dog. Despite family members taking him out etc the fact he was even in the house was used against me. My family member and I noticed the assessors eyes light up when he asked about pets but didn’t realise why at the time we thought maybe he liked dogs. Nope.
So no pets anymore. That small joy you might get from life is used against you it’s no wonder people’s mental health nosedives.

@Jingstohang

Honestly I'm not sure. I guess because it is possible to score but very very hard so have to ask just incase

So no pets anymore. That small joy you might get from life is used against you it’s no wonder people’s mental health nosedives.

I look forward to my dog being used against me in my next face to face. I got her because I had a rabbit before and wasnt coping - my dog is litter trained and a lap dog. I'm sure that wont matter though.

@jings

Is that confirmed? No pets?
Doesn’t make sense as people with children receive PIP

Theres no rules about pets

I think the reason it can be used against you for mental health is the argument that if you are saying you have no motivation to look after yourself and go outside is why would you have the motivation to look after a pet and walk it. But I think there's many ways to justify this. I personally never knew of anyone to use having a pet as any reason not to score someone for the daily living component, although possibly in the mobility component.

For physical health it might be a case of someone claiming to only be able to walk 50m and it might be questioned how you exercise your dog in that case. But again theres loads of explanations for this such as someone else walks it, or you just walk somewhere near by, take a few rests and sit on a bench and play fetch so theres minimal walking involved.

@Blahblooblah

” Eating and drinking - people putting lack of appetite. You only generally score for needing prompting to eat if you have a diagnosed eating disorder and have a care plan relating to food and specialist input. In my whole 11 months I worked there I was never able to score prompting for food. I tried a few times but then it got bounced back.”

People with traumatic brain injuries, strokes and learning disabilities (as examples) can often need prompting to eat. I’m very surprised you didn’t come across this, I don’t know how you long you worked there though.

@Schuyler

Sorry should have clarified I meant I had never had anyone scoring for prompting for eating and nutrition for mental health reasons,

But I think I once scored it for Prader Willi syndrome and for someone with a head injury who didnt register the feeling of hunger.

@Blahblooblah

Interesting, thanks. Did you assess many people with brain injuries and learning disabilities, out of interest?

@Schuyler

I assessed a few, more learning disabilities than head injuries, maybe I'd get about 3 learning disability cases a week and a head injury case about once a week. They were far from the most common. They were the hardest to assess too as the criteria for these ones was probably the most subjective.

I'd say in the order the 5 most common conditions in our assessment centre were

1. Anxiety and depression
2. Fibromyalgia
3. Arthritis
4. Back / orthopedic injuries
5. Alcoholism/ drug dependency

Gosh - I've read this thread and now I'm very worried!!!

@Blahblooblah - I applied for PIP mid March 2020 as I have lost a lot of my vision and am now certified as Sight Impaired.

My adult DD filled in the form (I dictated it) and I sent it off complete with my Certificate of Visual Impairment.

Now, 3 months down the line, I am becoming increasingly aware of further limitations I have which weren't detailed on my form.

With Social Distancing I've realised that I can't recognise people's faces so communicating with others is so difficult.

In the application I stated that I had no problem with communication (after all I can hold a full conversation and enjoy chatting to people). Now I realise that if someone wants to talk to be from a 2m distance they have to say my name so I know they are addressing me and I can then give them my attention. Also people have to introduce themselves as they enter a room otherwise I can't recognise them (facial features are blurred). If they just say "Hi" I can't see their face so, in group situations, I can't always recognise who is talking to me.

On the form I also stated that I can bathe and shower with just the use of Grab Rails. Since then I've constantly confused shampoo and conditioner bottles so I now use bumpons to distinguish between the two.

My DH also has to pour out measured amounts of mouthwash for me otherwise I inadvertently let the cap overflow as I can't tell when it's full and I end up drenching myself in it!!

These are just small examples of additional problems that I am encountering which weren't detailed on my application.

Other things not detailed on the form are the aids that I have subsequently been given by our local council's disability support team. These include a white symbol cane, talking kitchen scales, talking measuring jug, a fluid level indicator and bumpons to distinguish between certain similar shaped bottles (eye drops, spice jars, toileteries).

I will obviously tell all of this to the assessor when I get my appointment/telephone call but am I going to lose points for not mentioning these things on my original form?

I full realise that you have stepped in to a thread that the OP abandoned but I'd be greatful for any input.

@pipworry

I would not worry about there being some gaps on your form, there are plenty of opportunities to to add this during the assessment, I would think the best opportunity to say this is during the medical history section. And if you are are worried they haven't added it in you can ask that they read back certain points they have written to make sure it is included.

So for kitchen activities, usually when someone has been given aids it is because they have been deemed a necessity, even though the PIP system is very crappy I do not think that they would try an argue your need for aids. They might ask a few questions maybe on what would happen if you were not to use them though. There is a chance you can score 4 points for this by justifying it as needing assistance, this is usually done if you maybe struggle to identify if food is cooked properly so need someone to tell you it is safe to eat, or if you would not be able to respond to dangers such as you could't tell if a hob had accidentally turned on and there was a tea towel on it or something.

For bathing from what i remember, it wasn't in the scope whether or not you picked up the wrong item in the shower as it was assumed that over time someone might develop a 'system' for managing this, which in your case you have. However, you would still likely score for aids as you would require the grab rail to safely navigate yourself into the bath.

You won't score for communication, as this refers to your technical ability to speak and understand words, however you can likely score for engaging if you struggle with social cues and responding to facial expressions, there is also a consideration for the mental health aspect of this too with adjusting to sight loss and social engagement.

For dressing it was introduced just as I was leaving that if the person has recently had reduced eye sight they can score for supervision, as it is likely they have not had chance to adjust to a system of dressing independently (such as colour co-ordinated wardrobes, keeping things in very specific areas) therefore was kind of seen as a 'grace' period.

For reading, you can either score for aids or unable to read. They'll likely make you do a reading chart, I may be wrong but I think if you could read size 16 that was considered adequate to use aids (a magnifying glass)

For going outdoors, you will definitely score for aids as you are utilising a cane. I can not remember this one very well though sorry, I do remember we had to ask a lot of questions to do with identifying colour, obstacles on paths, responding to dangers. So there is definitely a criteria for some getting standard rate and some getting enhanced I just don't remember what the difference was.

Also Im not sure how they address the reading charts thing if if it is over the phone, I'm assuming they are just being told to take peoples word for it.

Hope this helps, I am happy to answer more questions but please be aware I have not done this job for several months so everything might not be 100% accurate.

That’s interesting about the prompting to eat prepare food

I scored points for needing prompting to cook and eat. I have bipolar disorder (also under assessment for ADHD). I struggle to cook a simple meal myself, rely heavily on ready meals that I can just pop in the microwave. I scored 2 points

@blahbooblah

Many thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed reply.

I am more than happy to list my aids to the assessor and see what happens.

Interestingly you mention being given a reading test - my CVI details my vision on page 1 (blind in right eye, 6/24 vision in left eye) so I assume they will accept that information which has come directly from my eye specialist.

I guess it's just a waiting game now - I applied 11 weeks ago so hopefully my application should be heading towards the top of the pile soon!!!

Thanks again for picking up the mantle from the absentee OP.

Yes thanks @Blahblooblah

I have Sent you a PM, but no pressure to respond

@PIPworry

No problem :)

Yes they would most likely just accept that information. It's a very objective vision test so it's not something the assessor can really debunk.

I don't want to give any false hope but I'd honestly be very surprised (and annoyed) if you didn't awarded anything.

I am autistic, struggled my whole life. I didn't know why. I was diagnosed by the NHS last year at 31.
The response back said something along the lines of "We do not believe Dontcoughatme is on the spectrum as they haven't reported these issues before"

When I reported for my fibromyalgia, anxiety and depression many typical symptoms of autism also

Why do the assessors feel it is there place to undermine an NHS diagnosis?

I had to attend many sessions and workshops to get that diagnosis. I was with my psychologist for 11.5 hours in total.

But someone with no psychology background knew better in 45 mins...

I haven’t read the full thread, just the first and last few pages so apologies if this has been asked- but how and why do people get into these roles? I’m an occupational therapist and see a lot of adverts for assessor roles specifically aimed at OTs, but can’t really see why you’d choose to make the switch and dont know anyone who has.