PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

Hired it's terrifying isn't it? My da could take 7 from 100. No issue. But give him £100 and he needed £7 to buy something he thinks he has £93 he doesn't need. He can't see he may need for for things in future. He will give it away because that would make people happy and "I didn't need it"

@itsgettingweird yes the ignorance we face is astounding. Ds could only answer that one question. I, as his appointee answered the rest but that one answer was used as evidence of all sorts of abilities he doesn't possess when I had supplied evidence from multiple health professionals to the contrary. A physiotherapist who heard him say one word was seen as more worthy than reports from SALTs who had known him for years (only nobody bothered to read their reports)
DWP had made me his appointee acknowledging he couldn't manage his own affairs. Because he could subtract 7 from 100 they then decided he needed no help with budgeting so completely ignoring the decision they had made earlier.
Thank God for Tribunal though who took time to read the evidence and awarded him 32 points when the DM had awarded 0 and then 2 at Mandatory Review.

I e just become ds appointee for dla ( turns 16 next month). I think CV may have helped me here because no face to face available!
I just said he has severe problems with executive function and therefore can manage his own affairs.

@trockodile

I’m in Scotland and was ‘lucky’ enough to get high level PIP care on first application-actually the assessor visited me at home, and was really nice and friendly. I only got 4 points on mobility and feel I should have had 8 though. If I appeal that, do I risk that my care portion could be reassessed and down graded? Feel reluctant to rock the boat! Thanks.

Yes, it's a gamble. They will reassess the whole thing.

@salsa899

how often are pip claims granted for type 1 diabetics? My dd is 17, recently diagnosed and her pre existing mental health issues have already increased massively as a result. Her diabetes nurse suggested she make a claim, which she did. She sent it with letters etc from her psychologist and doctor. What are her chances of getting any pip at all?

Familiarise yourself with the descriptors. The diagnosis isnt necessarily the bit that matters - they score you on how it affects you.

For anyone who is applying for PIP or is going through the mandatory reconsideration / tribunal process I would suggest contacting Fightback 4 Justice which is a non profit org that helped me get higher rate mobility after getting 0 points at my assessment www.fightback4justice.co.uk/

@itsgettingweird funnily enough dd's transfer to PIP was smooth and simple, no face to face, LD nurse phoned to double check a couple of things and that was it. She got the same award as she had from DLA (she is more able than ds so was dreading her switch) I think it definitely comes down to the luck of the draw tbh. Fingers crossed your switch is painless too.

It’s just disgusting. I accompanied my mum to an assessment last year, she has ushers syndrome and as a result is completely blind and deaf. They said she could follow a unfamiliar journey. How that’s possible when she can’t bloody see where she’s going I don’t know! At one point they pulled out a chart with letters on like the opticians use and asked her to read it, they are not opticians. She is legally diagnosed as blind, who do they think they are to argue the experts and attempt to undiagnose her!

This is about children getting dla rather than adults getting pip but hopefully you will be able to answer.

Around the time that adults changed from dla to pip my 2 sons who were both on high rate mobility, middle rate care got turned down at renewal. Their needs hadn't changed, although caring for them had gradually got harder as they got bigger and stronger.

I was just wondering why the changes were introduced? Was it to make it better for disabled people? (If it was it obviously didn't work), to save money? Or for some other reason?

Why were lifetime awards for dla scrapped? What is the point of reassessing people with lifelong disabilities to see if their autism, spinal injuries or brain damage has been cured?

In my experience lack of evidence to begin with. A lot of people only send in the evidence needed when they ask for an MR or it goes to appeal.

I think that's an over-generalisation. I fairly recently heard a tribunal judge talk about an exercise he had done with colleagues where they simply worked through the files of pending appeals and weeded out that those that were no-brainers because the decision was so obviously wrong, irrespective of extra evidence. He said they'd ended up allowing 60% of the appeals on those files very quickly indeed because the decisions were so obviously wrong.

I'm sorry but I disagree with you OP. My sister is a PIP assessor and has a Masters degree in nursing, of course you need to be medically qualified.

Mine was turned down because I was and i quote "articulate" I still have no idea how my chronic and progressive condition has anything to do with how I can express myself. I will be appealing but I was very shaken after a devastating diagnosis, I genuinely believed after working for nearly 30 years the system would look after me. I was wrong.

I’d only just come out of a psychiatric hospital not long before my pip assessment. (been under psychiatric care for a while, diagnosed long term illness, vey unwell) Was wearing the same clothes I think I’d been wearing for the past week or so. High dose of about 5 medications at the time. Said I went alone. I didn’t, amongst other things. Needed close supervision. I passed by 1 point

This was in Scotland

@Whitbygoth but why should your sister's assessment as a nurse override reports by paediatricians, OTs, SALTs, Psychiatrists etc who have had longterm knowledge of their patient's needs and are medical experts in their chosen area? Masters or not your sister is a nurse not even a Doctor much less one with specialist knowledge.

@LesbianMummies I have a colleague who is blind, was born blind and has no prospect of ever not being blind. At her last assessment they asked her to read from an opticians chart too - they had to tell her they were holding it up (obviously as she could not see it......).

To @salsa899 - there is a Facebook group for type 1 diabetics and PIP - have a search as it is very helpful. It seems hit and miss with whether they get PIP or not, depends who they see and lots are having to go to tribunal, where a lot but not all are successful.

Yes we can phone and speak to your doctor, CPN, social worker etc and get more evidence and we quite often do.

What bugs me is that this shouldn't be necessary. The system appoints a load of people without the right experience or qualifications to make the assessment by personal examination, despite the fact that, in many cases, there will already be a wealth of medical information already available from people who actually are qualified. Then when they inevitably keep making the wrong decisions it's left to the assessor to try to fill in the gaps - but we know from the appeal rate that that doesn't work either.

Why not just go mad and rely on the medical evidence in the first place?

Is it true that suffers of trigeminal neuralgia are more likely to be awarded than they were in previous years?

I'm scoring the long absent OP nul points for effort.
AMA my arse.

What was the point of this?

Has op just got this job and wants to brag, thought she knew it all?

Why do a ama if you all your answers are going to be generic vague and kiss the point of what was being asked?

The issue isnt the assessors and how qualified they are, my back ground before starting as a PIP assessor was 2 years neurology and 2 years inpatient psychiatric and learning disability and an 18 month hospital rotation. But my knowledge on those conditions could not be used to justify a claim, as it follows a strict criteria which is basically 1.) Do they see a specialist 2.) Are they on medication 3.) Is the medication not working effectively 4.) Have they adjusted their lives consistently with their condition e.g reduced hours, home adaptations, carers 5.) Do they look and sound unwell.

If they haven't done those things, the assessor would not stand a chance of getting their report past the auditors despite how much the assessor understands that persons condition.

In some cases the problem definitely is the assesors.

My mins said mum was observed walking up the street, into the building and to the room, unaided. She wasn't. Dad parked outside the door and i had to help her in. Once inside she got her walker out.

Mums medication for epilepsy is definitely, a prescription medicine. The assessor claimed it was an ivee counter medicine for something else. Despite the medical reports say what the medication was.

That also got passed the decision maker and mum was awarded after appealing and complaining.

Mum had 2 specialists (2 conditions) had reduced hours at work, medication and dad was caring for her on her worst days. When she couldn't even walk to the kitchen.

But the medication and the imoacts on her life, ie not been able to walk more than a few steps unaided, was deemed a lie because she was seen walking a long distance. The person who said they saw her walk down the street to the building is the liar.

So yes, in lots of cases the assessor is the problem. So is the 'decision maker', they dont actually look and verify anything. The medication can be googled in 3 seconds and be shown to be prescribed for type of epilepsy that my mum has.

Whats the point of the decision maker? They are reading a report from someone expressing an opinion and who ha scha ce to make the report read as they eant it to read. If the decision maker isn't verifying anything whats the point? They will read a potentially biased report and make their decision off that. Might as well let the assesors make the decision, as it seems to completely down to them anyway. Save wages on decisoon makers.

As a Welfare Rights Officer who represents clients at appeals, my appeal stats are just under 90%.
Stuff I see on a daily basis and which is my HUGE bugbear is Assessor 's ( and yes they are medically trained), that make assessments on Mental Health who have had almost NO training ( apart from the training that ATOS/Capita or whatever their new name is ) give them. They have no knowledge of medications, conditions or how it affects people. I have had cases where there has been decent medical evidence sent in ( from Psychiatry, Carers etc), but the assessor has decided that because they could answer questions at the assessment, then they didn't fit the descriptors. I always get the client to get me the assessment report also.
I have also turned up to tribunals where we didn't get in the door, because they decided to give a decent award before the client goes in front of them ( no additional evidence supplied), based on the papers. Sometimes I even get phoned a few days before with an offer for my clients.
I am not blaming all assessors, because there are some truly decent and brilliant ones out there.

And I have spoken to a few ( who will never admit publicly due to needing their job), that the DWP will challenge reports where a high award is given and put it through several audits to try and reduce it. I ask to see them all. I actually do feel sorry for some of the assessors actually..not all as I make complaints regularly on behalf of clients.
The system is completely flawed as the assessors also don't get feedback if the claimant is awarded at a tribunal which could assist with their report writing. They had the same client in front of them for same length of time as the Tribunal did.

Why is it so variable and seemingly capricious?

The reason given in the papers for moving to PIP from DLA was that there were all these people who had never been examined or assessed and just put on DLA for life. Which is true, my DH never went to a medical assessment and had a lifetime award. When he was moved to PIP they sent us the form, I put a line through every page and wrote on the back QUADRIPLEGIC and his doctors name and address. They put him straight on highest rates PIP with the longest review (I think it's 10 or 15 years?). There was no medical examination. Which is obviously the correct thing to do in his case. It's pretty unequivocal when you're totally paralysed.

But then what was all that stuff in the papers about everyone having to have an assessment and this being somehow vital? And all the people here with all these experiences. How is this understood within the department?

@Blahblooblah you may be well qualified but many are nurses or physios who may have no real experience of the conditions they are assessing. However 5 days a week 9-5 is a very attractive package compared to working on the wards.

Also all of those criteria that you have listed may be your understanding but they do not reflect social security law for a PIP or DLA award. You don’t need to have a specialist, you don’t need medication, you don’t need to have adaptations, reduced work or a carer. You don’t even have to look or sound unwell. No wonder appeals are so successful.

The assessment is so restricted by prompted questions and drop down boxes that one wrong tick can be the difference in qualifying.