PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

@Bibi

When did you submit your initial application?

I was supported throughout pregnancy by the perinatal mental health team.

It appears that they have not written to my GP or specialists and no reference has been made to the extensive evidence I sent with my claim (over 30 pages of letters and medical records).

@Juliet2014 on 6 March. I used to receive DLA (2006 until 2015) but was awarded nil points and simply wasn't well enough to fight it at the time. My health has worsened in the last couple of years and I eventually got up the bottle to claim again. Due to health issues I had to reduce my work hours significantly at the start of the year.

Under DLA I used to receive what was the medium rate care and the lowest rate of mobility.

Thank you hellswelshy, I take your point.

Yes, it's very emotive, especially when one has witnessed first hand the extreme distress caused by these mavericks in the system.

Surely the OP considered that before starting the thread?

Blahblooblah thanks for the input, I'm unsurprised, what a horrible set up.

The thing is on the medical evidence as some other posters have said - many GPs/consultants don't KNOW how it impacts you on each descriptor.

Like it's not their job to write reports saying how you dress, or eat food - it's their job to diagnose you and provide the needed care. And when you have a long-term incurable condition you often don't have up to date reports to submit which is frustrating as they seem to want lots of evidence dated recently.

I also had previous consultants I'd seen refuse to put in reports when I asked. For example my pain consultant replied 'just use the last letter I sent you' which was one tiny paragraph basically saying what medication I was on, nothing more and my prescriptions would have told them that. He certainly wouldn't take the time to write something helpful.

Having said that I've just transferred from DLA to PIP. I've been absolutely dreading it for six years waiting for the letter, and it actually went well for me although it took awhile. I submitted my forms early November, and I only got the result a few weeks ago now. I paid for a couple of reports to be done so I had some new things to submit. They did an on-paper assessment and gave me the on-going award, which is such a bloody relief.

But there is so much wrong in the system. Even now having been awarded the highest rates when I read my on-paper assessment there was so much wrong. For example they wrote that because I had been in pain rehabilitation recently it showed I could meet new people and socialise. First, the rehab was 2012 - is that recent?! Secondly being admitted to hospital for a very painful and difficult time isn't a fucking party, and shouldn't be used to show I can socialise for gods sake!

And I had one hell of time getting DLA in the first place - I was treated like a criminal and I found the whole thing hard to get over it was so awful.

Blahblooblah What you have said there all looks perfectly reasonable and plausible.
I hope you weren’t one of the ones who assessed me because to a stranger their reports also seemed pretty reasonable and plausible. And so did their excuses when they were caught out in their lies

Three questions
Why do you have to sign the official secrets act before you start assessing people?
Why do you continue to make excuses you know fine well people can provide rock solid evidence and STILL be lied about?
Did your conscience get the better of you making you leave?

Sorry I come across as cold but you know how it is don’t you.

It is hard to see the system as reliable when my dd was refused and it was turned over at tribunal on exactly the same evidence. It seems to me that many claims are simply denied in the hope that people will go away and probably because claim assessors have to reject a certain number. What kind of targets do you have?

but it's important isn't it to remember that people who work for the DWP are human beings too.

But that is true of anytime, anywhere isn't it ? The thugs currently swaggering about London right now are "human beings too".

My son turned 16 recently, he was awarded enhanced PIP mobility and care. The previous award was DLA low rate care only (I should have gone to tribunal but didn't have the energy) should the PIP be backdated to reflect the higher award?

One thing I have never understood is why someone with a permanent condition which is not going to resolve and may lead to significant deterioration of quality of life in and indeterminable time frame has to be re-assessed - there have been some shocking cases reported that defy all logic of people with loss of limb or degenerative conditions for which there is no cure and precious little treatment being assessed as not needing PIP (and other important benefits).

Would it not actually save money in the long term by accepting their medical conditions and just letting them have the sodding money because it's hardly a fortune is it? And if it means that someone can't do a job for example due to the loss of the payment then it's doubly short-sighted especially for the person concerned but also from an economic perspective......in my utopia these things wouldn't happen because the person deserves dignity and support first and foremost, but from a political / economic point of view such as espoused by the current government, paying for assessments that cost more than the benefits being disputed just seems utterly counter-intuitive.....

Unforgettablefire

I'm not sure what that act is. I didn't sign anything like that, or if I did I did so without realising.

What I think may be a reason for your second point is that a few assessors had been there a long time and had become extremely cynical and a bitter which may impact judgement, though I dont think that's the main reason but it can happen. ..But what I think is the bigger issue is that the direction of the training you receive and the critique you get it is almost like brain washing, they don't directly tell you "you need to fail people" but they do so discretely by tinkering with criteria's and basically making it a lot easier to justify failing someone than awarding them, for example if you score someone enhanced it 100% gets picked up and picked to pieces by auditors and it almost 100% gets sent back, and when your work gets sent back if this happens a certain amount of times you get put under review which is a process everyone hates.

And yes, however I did ignore the criterias often so i could go with what I felt right , but it almost always got picked up on and came back to bite me.

I just want to add that most staff I worked with were often very emotionally effected by the cases, they too tried to fight for what they thought was right and treated everyone with consideration and respect but most were ultimately were just performing the duties of the role. It does have an extremely high turn over in staff though

“And when you have a long-term incurable condition you often don't have up to date reports to submit which is frustrating as they seem to want lots of evidence dated recently.”

Exactly- how do we deal with that?

I’m in Scotland and was ‘lucky’ enough to get high level PIP care on first application-actually the assessor visited me at home, and was really nice and friendly. I only got 4 points on mobility and feel I should have had 8 though. If I appeal that, do I risk that my care portion could be reassessed and down graded? Feel reluctant to rock the boat! Thanks.

How do you decide that an ability in one area automatically transfers to an ability elsewhere? My son received 0 points on transfer to PIP (previously HRC and HRM lifetime award for DLA) and the reasoning was he played computer games and therefore could cook a meal, manage his affairs and medication etc etc. Because he could subtract 7 from 100 it was used as evidence he could communicate even though it was the only question he was able to answer and I had sent in plenty of evidence of his needs by professionals that had been involved in his care throughout his life. If reports from professionals are ignored, in favour of an assessor who in our case seemed completely ignorant of autism and the co morbids, how can claimants expect a fair assessment and decision?
At Tribunal the panel were incredulous as to why we were there. DWP had no reasoning for their decisions and couldn't explain why they hadn't looked at the evidence supplied either at first assessment, mandatory review or even before Tribunal. Ds was awarded 32 points by Tribunal.

Think OP has gone. Oh well :(

My daughter's first application had to go to appeal and was granted, we appealed on the amount of points she was awards. Her renewal she was allocated zero points after seeing an assessor although her condition had worsened so work that one out.

Assessor actually contradicted herself in her report, went to appeal and she was granted mobility rate too which she hadn't applied for because the assessor made her do the mobility part of the assessment which she hadn't applied for.

Unless it's changed anyone who is worried about appealing, you don't have to attend the appeal hearing, you just send all your evidence etc,( I sent them a breakdown of where the assessors report was lacking too) and they will discuss it with out you being there.

IMO they just reject lots of claims hoping people will accept it.

@Owmyback why come on AMA and then disappear?

Many DMs follow the HCP report blindly, stating that the HCP is trained while making no reference to the PIP2 completed by the claimant even when the condition, meds and treatment are consistent with the claimant written evidence. Is this due to the DM workload and targets?

In reality do they have time or EVER request further medical evidence?

Have you seen a huge rise in claims for ASD both for increasingly younger children and newly diagnosed adults?

hiredandsqueak

It falls down to the 'criteria'. Playing video games in the eyes of PIP shows an ability to plan and problem solve therefore the rationale is if they can follow the rules of a video game and use strategies, then they can work out how to follow a simple recipe (e.g pasta)

The mathematical thing and how that equates to communication, so pip see's basic communication as "yes" "no" "hungry" "sleepy" and complex communication as a sentence, so by simply responding to the maths question and showing an understanding of the maths questions shows he can speak and understand a sentence.

Please be clear this isnt me agreeing with those rules, I really don't. I'm just explaing how the criterias are set.

It's reading stories here that is why I e already been logging everything for my autistic ds for when he changes to PIP within next 12 months.

He has an ehcp for 20 hours support a week. He gets MRC and LRM now. But because he's highly intelligent and thinks he can answer questions (earlier he couldn't even tell me and a friend what he thinks when he hears the ice cream van) I get the feeling someone will suddenly think his autism has been cured.

So truth. He can take a tray out of an oven. Realism. He cannot remember to return to food in haven without reminding. He will often forget to turn off the oven. Sometimes his anxiety gets the better of him and he'll refuse to move stuff form an oven.
But I've heard horror stories that "because he can" the rest is ignored.

@Blahblooblah it's just so shortsighted though isn't it? Ds, maybe in theory, would be able to write down how to make a sandwich. Because he knows the theory to lots of stuff it's the practice that is the problem. Sensory issues have a huge impact so where a computer game is nice and safe preparing food isn't safe because of smells, noises, temperatures, sharp knives etc and so he doesn't ever make food. Even years in a specialist school with input from OT's SALTs and psychologists couldn't get him to even make a sandwich.

Being able to subtract seven from 100 doesn't illustrate communication at all. Numbers are his special interest so he hears numbers and tunes in and will calculate what is asked. He's like a walking calculator, I can shout out a list of numbers and he will add them up. He can't ask for food when he is hungry, he eats at 3pm at 2.40pm he stands and looks at me and waits for me to ask him if he wants food. He can't go in a shop and ask for something, he couldn't ask for help, being able to manipulate numbers is pretty useless in the grand scheme of things as is his ability to recite football and grand prix statistics. He can speak and speak well but his downloads of figures and statistics aren't communication in even the broadest sense.

Old good point. My ds has a neurodegenerative condition which affect mobility. So everything he struggles with now will never improve and will very likely get worse.

hiredandsqueak

I completely agree that it's shortsighted. Peoples abilities and disabilities do not fall into neat little boxes, theres many variables that arent taken into consideration, however with pip they tend to grasp onto one thing, for example maybe that someones able to drive then apply the logic of "well if they can drive they can cook, bathe and dress too" ...in your sons case they have used the fact he can play games to discount every thing.

Though In saying this, it is not impossible to pass the criteria in these circumstances, but it Is a lot harder.

I would like to know how a person with an incurable condition/illness can be awarded PIP then at a review is refused PIP. By the time the review came the person had more conditions/illnesses so it looks a bit odd that the PIP people think the person is no longer suffering from an incurable situation.
It did not inspire any confidence in the Disability system.

how often are pip claims granted for type 1 diabetics? My dd is 17, recently diagnosed and her pre existing mental health issues have already increased massively as a result. Her diabetes nurse suggested she make a claim, which she did. She sent it with letters etc from her psychologist and doctor. What are her chances of getting any pip at all?