PIP Decision Maker AMA

[Owmyback]

What do you want to know

“What is considered “good evidence”? My partner no longer sees specialists etc as they can’t do much for him, so he doesn’t have any recent paperwork.”

I’m in much the same situation- I have MS and my consultant’s annual letter essentially just confirms I still have MS. There’s nothing I can do but continue to self manage my condition and live with my disability. They don’t write new letters to re-describe the same stuff. Should I just submit the original letters with the details of my issues and explain they have not changed? I’m genuinely perplexed. I’m very scared of losing my benefits (which could cause me to lose the blue badge I desperately need to have even a semblance of a life)

Here’s my most recent experience. I submitted a large volume of high quality evidence that my condition was unchanged and would remain unchanged. From some of the most eminent specialists in their fields in this country. Also a GP letter I paid for which addressed individual areas that are assessed.

The person who did my assessment was unbelievably unpleasant- so much so that I complained about her immediately.

She decided that because I was still being seen at the pain clinic I had scope for improvement. Despite the fact that it was clearly stated that I was seeing the psychologist to help me come to terms with the permanence of my condition. She overruled the opinion of all my medical experts.

Please can you explain how that sort of report could be accepted byy someone doing your job? It’s farcical and a massive waste of resources to then have to go through the appeal. And quite unbelievably stressful to the claimant who is, obviously, already suffering.

I was successful but the thing that gave me the greatest relief was the fact that they gave me an open ended award.

Thank you BankofNook, for an honest answer.
It's good to know that there are people within the Civil Service who investigate complaints.

I should add that this was a reassessment of an existing successful award.

How is it possible to turn down an application when the applicant's MH is so bad that he has been compulsorily detained in a secure MH unit for 20 years? A copy of the relevant extract from his medical records, a letter confirming his date of admission and the fact that he has been detained under section for more than half his adult life and a copy of his care plan were submitted with the application.

I was asked to help with his application as part of his discharge planning, so that he will be able to get PIP as soon as he leaves hospital and into supported accommodation, where he will still be under DOLS. He was awarded zero points. The fact that he has been detained because he is a risk to others should be a shoo-in for 8 points under descriptor 9, before we even look at other descriptors.

I don't work there anymore. I get to experience the other side of the coin these days as a carer for my disabled DC.

Having worked for HMRC, the people who are jobsworths & don't question things they see as wrong or unjust are the ones who go to the top. Anyone questioning policies or unfair rulings is made out to be a troublemaker.

That too @Nat6999, the good old "don't be difficult" discussion of concern in a side room...

OP I'm with warbreckwatertower on this. Don't set yourself up as a spokesperson for the DWP and their processes. You have already said more than you should ( even though you may not realise it)

I’m pleased you cleared up that assessors have no relevant medical training.

It explains why the system is a fucking shambles but that is not your fault. I have many, many issues with the PIP system but I do recognise that the individual workers aren’t usually to blame and are just following guidance.

You’re a Civil Servant giving your personal opinions on a public site.
Careful you don’t bring the Department into disrepute....

Why was my DWs assessor sent to us without a single sheet of paperwork that we had submitted, and was not allowed (their words) to take the copy I had printed for them ? (they seemed taken aback that I knew they'd arrive without it) or the CD-R I had burned with it too.

Leading to the ludicrous situation:

A: Does your wife have a certificate of visual impairment ?

Me: Yes. There's a scan in the document I submitted.

A: But I haven't got a copy of that. Can you show it to me ?

Me: You can take this printed copy here.

A: No, I'm not allowed (looks at copy and notes number).

Also, why is the PIP form not available in electronic form ?

But apart from that, sterling work. I'm sure it's keeping a lid on claims and that's the whole point.

Jan I applied and beyond a text that been received
Nothing since
What the heck is going on?!

You say you’re a “decision maker” but then you say you don’t make decisions and you just read the report to ensure that full enough for someone else to make a decision.

So essentially a tick box checker.

Correct?

* I'm the person that receives the report and reads all the other evidence and decides on whether the report is fit for purpose. *

So over egging it somewhat in your OP describing yourself as a “pip decision maker”

I and everyone else who has been through this system knows it’s an utter farce as do the people who control it.
“More evidence was provided” I’m sick to the back teeth of hearing that now it’s an insult it’s like nails down a blackboard!!! If it’s just a simple case of evidence being needed why the fuck not just get it from peoples doctors and specialists in the first place?? Instead of paying BILLIONS to these private companies and the vile liars operating for them and then the appeals! Lessons should be learned from the appeal success rate but no it’s the same old mantra “more evidence was provided”
Not in my case, I provided solid concrete evidence from the beginning, and EVERY SINGLE assessment was horrific and not one report yet has been truthful!!
They get away with it because they can, and they’re making LOTS of money from it. Doesn’t matter that people are committing suicide because of it, or starving to death and their bodies only being found when the council bailiffs turn up to evict them because yes they even write to the council and have your housing benefit cancelled.

You can have your assessments recorded in case anyone didn’t know but you have to let them know in advance you want it done.

It’s an absolute disgrace that the most vulnerable are being shafted like this and I honestly hope karma goes after each and every single fucking one of those who have taken part in it.

As far as I can tell, the only way to "win" is to overwhelm them with a clear indication that you know what you are doing and that they are better off moving to shaft the next application in the queue.

People who enjoy abusing their power are usually called bullies.

Do the DWP actually contact all the people listed or is it better to get letters yourself?

I recently asked my GP for evidence for uni, paid for it and they wrote "possibly" against every question. Including "could their condition cause hearing loss." I wear hearing aids and have fairly serious hearing loss....

Do you take supporting letters directly from the GP into consideration? Or are they a waste of time.

There seems to be little internal drive to rid the pip process of either incompetent or malevolent assessors, why should people have to complain, this should be an active internal drive, these assessors should be subject to robust disciplinary procedures when they are found to be submitting false reports. Particularly because of the impact of their incompetence on vulnerable people.

I am not speaking on behalf of the OP EchoCardio - but it's important isn't it to remember that people who work for the DWP are human beings too. And unlike other posters who are hurling insults, I was trying to show support for the original AMA post. It could be an interesting post, but as usual some posters get aggressive and that's not the spirit of the thread in my opinion. I understand the frustration felt by many pp's, the system can for many claimants be unfair and there are definitely flaws within it. Unfortunately the system is not determined by the bulk of the staff who administer it!

In very unsurprising and typical PIP style... the OP has made herself unavailable leaving questions unanswered.

The OP wasn’t lying when she said she worked for PIP was she?!

Ask me Anything. I’m a PIP decision maker so I certainly won’t be answering to you scrounging low life

OP you are strangely silent for one who comes forward to be questioned by your target audience.

Ex assessor here just chipping in on a couple of the questions asked.

One reason for the ammount of decisions that are overturned is that assessors are told they cant score over a certain % of claimants, if there numbers get too high they get put under review and are monitored in the assessments and put under a lot of scrutiny.

Assessments are also sent to auditors who can be even stricter than we are and tell us to drop scores down as they don't believe theres sufficient evidence. Therefore we have to change it even if we don't agree with it, so even if it's not the assessors decision it still has the assessors name associated with it.

Another reason is that the assessments follow a very rigid criteria, and these criteria's have tightened throughout the months/years. One example being for the activity 'dressing', if someone is able to move their hip to a certain angle (very small) bend over to their knee or bring their knee at least someway to their chest then that is seen as adequate to dress yourself, very few people are unable to complete these movements as the degree of movement is so small. Another example is 'following journeys', unless you present yourself in assessment as vomiting, screaming and crying in distress you wont get anything for mental health.

The person asking about qualification. Its expected that someone has 2 years working experience as a health care professional, e.g nurse, paramedic.

And in regards to the query about expertise in the relevant area, it doesn't make a difference in the assessments, as mentioned before they follow a criteria. To score points it's about the evidence available. So evidence can either be; how you present in the assessment, the medical input you have, the medications you are on and information about your daily life (e.g giving up work, having home adaptations etc). So for example you can have a physical health nurse assessing a young man with adhd as long as he is getting specialist input for adhd, is on medication for ADHD and presented as you may expect someone with ADHD to present, and hes attending a specialist subsection at his school. That would be adequate information to score despite having no prior knowledge to score.

However that is where the major flaws lie as theres many reasons someone might not be on medications, or have specialist support, or might not look unwell at the time but Pip has no considerations for these reasons and is very black and white.

These are also some of the many reasons I'm an ex assessor.

This is timely. I've had my application rejected (only awarded 4 points for daily living). The reasoning seems to miss out pretty much everything that was said in my application and in my phone interview. The point have only been awarded for physical disability or where aphysical aid is required - which are not my main difficulties (bipolar disorder, autism spectrum disorder, bulimia, anxiety and other associated problems).

The decision letter says walking round the block with our dog occasionally means I can plan a journey despite needing a carer for any where unfamiliar/ any significant distance. Being able to drive was also cited as proof of this. Which doesn't make sense.

I am currently restricted on what drugs I can take (both painkillers and MH medication) as I am breastfeeding and I also have a problem with my gallbladder and liver. They used that as proof that I don't need support because I had to stop taking bipolar medication when pregnant.

I also only got the letter today, but is dated 8 June (Monday) which means I only have three weeks to ask for mandatory reconsideration, not a month.