To be thinking about JKR's mental health right now?

[BabyLlamaZen]

I'm not going to patronize her enough to say I'm worried, but honestly! This is too muchm

Her initial tweet showed her how these issues were already concerning her (and she expanded on these fears in her essay). Then the response was disgusting and I'm sure can't have felt great (no matter how much she expected it). No one likes to read threats of abuse, especially when you have actually gone through what she has.

Then Dan Radcliffe throws her under a bus, a few more supposed follow suit. She spends time writing this extremely thought out (and incredibly reasonable, whatever your view) essay. She has to think about and bring up a very painful past. Then she STILL gets abuse for this, including rape comments. More Harry Potter stars including supposed feminist Watson denounce her. AND DON'T EVEN MENTION THE ESSAY!

Then The Sun shares the story from her abusive ex and throws his comments all over the front page?! Disgusting!

I know she's a strong woman and I hope as hell she's got people supporting her right now. Even for someone who didn't have a history of depression, this would be horrific.

Whatever happened to 'Be Kind?'

I dont think this is going anywhere for a good while :(

I have sent a ranty email to the body shop today after they threw her under a bus too!

For various personal life reasons I have not read a lot or been exposed to much of this debate.
Does anyone know of any sources which explain what this whole saga is about so I can understand the issue please?

I can’t understand the extremism, and hatred. I am confused!
Any useful articles etc would be appreciated

You simply can’t categorise people having different views as ‘tearing each other apart’ or you’ll never leave any room for debate, freedom of speech, freedom of thought, or development of ideas.

Is what has happened to JKR in the last few days an example of debate and freedom of ideas? Or has she been told to 'suck my male cock' on the back of saying that women menstruate?

By the way, saying women menstruate is not an opinion or idea, it's a fact. A non-debatable one.

If this debate is fundamentally about feelings about themselves, (it doesnt seem to be about anything more objective than that)
Why are some peoples feelings worth more than other.

'I feel bad when I am referred to as a man'
'I feel bad when I am referred to as a menstruator'

How in God's name could any sane person read her incredibly well reasoned and calm letter, full of love and support for transpeople too, and deduce, "wow, she hates and rejects trans people.".

Completely agree with this. I don’t think most of them have properly read it. They just hear what they want to hear. Huge respect for Jk Rowling.

mutedgrey someone upthhread posted the medium link.
It contains JK's own words and the response to them. No commentary.

If you are reading this then I love you JKR. You are such an inspiration to me. Thank you so much for speaking out, and for being so brave and open and honest. 💐

Is what has happened to JKR in the last few days an example of debate and freedom of ideas? Or has she been told to 'suck my male cock' on the back of saying that women menstruate?

We are specifically talking about the statements made by Daniel Radcliffe, Emma Watson, etc. I completely agree (as I have now said many times) that the abusive behaviour towards JKR is completely unacceptable and cannot be condoned. But dragging that into a separate question of whether it is ‘tearing someone apart’ or ‘throwing them under the bus’ to express disagreement with them is an unfair tactic designed to muddy the water.

By the way, saying women menstruate is not an opinion or idea, it's a fact. A non-debatable one.

I disagree. I think some women menstruate. I think some people who menstruate are not women. You are not the arbiter of how the world works and is to be understood.

So it’s “be kind” to a millionaire who wouldn’t give a scuttering shit about any of you, but be bigoted to trans people instead?*

Tomo how does stating facts even compare to the shit JKR has had? I really hope your actively on Twitter policing people's words there.

Please also tell us what she said that was bigoted.

As a side note, does feminism only matter if the woman your supporting isn't rich? I didn't get that memo.

And does anyone know if DR, ER or EW have since condemned the attacks on her? Their silence speaks volumes about their respect for her.

Thank you.

I’ve found a few things now.
How deeply depressing

It’s interesting that not one of the people criticising the abuse against JKR has pushed back against the poster upthread calling Emma Watson, Daniel Radcliffe etc ‘revolting, self-serving little fucks’.

I think some people who menstruate are not women.

How can you menstruate without a female biology?

You are not the arbiter of how the world works and is to be understood

I know how biology works. It's basic science. Do you deny female biology?

If you came into the world from the body of a woman how can you disagree that only women menstruate?

MutedGrey here are a few extra links that might help:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?watched=1

janeclarejones.com/2018/11/13/the-annals-of-the-terf-wars/

How can you menstruate without a female biology?

I know how biology works. It's basic science. Do you deny female biology?

I want to make it very clear that I’m not getting into a fight about this on Mumsnet because, as we both know, there is nothing I could ever say or do that would influence you in any way to change your view. So I will set out my position once, and that’s it:

Sex and gender are not the same thing, and your biological characteristics are not necessarily determinative of your gender.

Biological sex is not nearly as binary or straightforward as many anti trans activists make out to be. Reductive claims about it being ‘simple science’ or ‘basic biological fact’ ignore the complex, nuances reality of what sex and gender actually mean. There is no single or straightforward ‘sex characteristic’, but rather a complex set of characteristics which interact in various ways, and differently for different people. Studies have shown, for example, that the brain phenotypes or trans people are more comparable to those of the sex they identify as than the sex they have been assigned at birth: www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.3109/09540261.2015.1113163

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01237-z

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

So I personally do not accept the clumsy and unscientific assertion that to accept the reality of transgender people’s lives is to ‘deny biology’.

If you were disgusted by The Sun's headline, please consider complaining to the IPCC. They have an online complaint form.

Yes, unless you know her of course. In which case I'd pick up the phone instead of posting on a forum.

Minature are you saying you do not believe that biological sex exists?

Only the female of the human species has the capability to reproduce, that includes those that are too young to do so, those that chose not to, those that for medical reasons are not able to and those that are now too old. Each and every one of them is female.

@CaveMum, in a very convoluted, pseudoscience way, thats exactly what @MiniatureHero is saying. Another female biology denyer.

The gendered brain has been disproven as utter rubbish. There is no such thing as a “female brain” or a “male brain”.
www.theguardian.com/science/2019/feb/24/meet-the-neuroscientist-shattering-the-myth-of-the-gendered-brain-gina-rippon

Sex IS binary. There is no third sex, no third gamete. 98.8% of people fall into either the male or female categories. Developmental differences do not disprove biological sex, they reaffirm it as each disorder only affects either the male or female.

quillette.com/2020/06/07/jk-rowling-is-right-sex-is-real-and-it-is-not-a-spectrum/

In every case where -

A female has been raped,
A female foetus been aborted due to the sex,
A female has experienced FGM
A female has been trafficked into prostitution,
A female has become one of the two women murdered by their partner in the UK every week

their perpetrator has been very aware of their sex and nothing about it has been nuanced or complex.

Funny that.

Anyone can twist words and expressions to suit their meaning or thoroughly confuse themselves and others.

Somehow despite the current online movement where people like to pretend that sex is ridiculously complicated, the human race has still managed to reproduce over millenia without too much confusion over which kind of person gets pregnant. The human race still knows which one does the majority of child-rearing, caring, cooking, cleaning, and most of the mental load in looking after families. Incredible isn't it.

But when a man wants to be a woman its complicated

JKR said that only women menstruate, which is a biological fact. It shouldn't be controversial to acknowledge physical differences.

Miniaturehero's statement above is misleading.

Brain studies have only shown that transwomen attracted to men have phenotypes similar to natal women (that is, transwomen who would otherwise be considered gay men).

The review she cites points out a 2011 study that found no such similarities in tranwomen attracted to women, and states that more studies are needed that actually control for sexual orientation as a confounding factor.