WTAF - Far right protests

[Poppi89]

I have just heard on the radio that far-right protesters will be out tomorrow in response to the BLM protesters. People are being urged not to be out in support of BLM tomorrow due to the aggressive nature of the far-right group and BLM protests are being cancelled because of them.

I am outraged by this. The BLM protesters are asking for people to not be killed due to the colour of their skin. They have rightly or wrongly made a decision to put themselves at risk of COVID-19 to help spread this message - a lot of people have called them idiots etc for doing this.

The far-right protests are now also protesting in large groups (but not in response to a murder) and are 'known' for being aggressive. How is this acceptable?

I would like to hear from anyone who is planning to join/agree with these far-right protests and their reasons why?

@pippahugo

Oh my days ...thanks for the explanation but I already help on a project with this..i am extremely familiar with the projects you mention

Difference is I dont try and bait and pit groups against each other.

Fycking posturing when you are posting whatabbouterry ? Yeah ok

Sexism affects more people in the UK than racism

Absolutely!!!!!! I know the discussion is not about this (before someone shouts me down) but how few would march for this.

I think about 700,000 went on the women's march in 2019.
Regardless, marching achieves little (I still think it should be done though) the solution to racism and sexism isn't in the gift of the people marching, the solution is in the hand of the people not marching.
Sexual harassment, for example, there is NOTHING women can do to stop this. The solution is 100% in the hands of men, they just have to stop harassing women, problem solved. Same goes for racial harassment, the solution is 100% in the hands of the harasser, don't call people racist names or make gestures, problem solved.
Sexism and racism are more complicated as they are often subconscious. The solution is still ONLY within the gift of the racist. The first step is probably examining your own attitudes isn't of the constant cry of 'I'm not racist'. For one thing, how do you know your not racist? Unconscious bias is just that, unconscious.

@PippaHugo

Check your privilege!

At every level, working-class white boys are the most disadvantaged group.

By the age of five white boys from disadvantaged backgrounds are already 13% behind disadvantaged black boys and 23% behind disadvantaged Asian girls in their phonics.

Only a third of white working-class boys pass their maths and English GCSEs.

Disadvantaged white working-class boys are 40% less likely to go into higher education than disadvantaged black boys.

According to UCAS, only 9% of these boys will go to university, compared with around half of the general population.

They aren't the most disadvantaged group, they are the group that makes the least progress the two aren't mutually exclusive. I suggest you do more research, as there are plenty of studies which show teachers will mark down black pupils and assume that they are of low ability. In terms of disadvantage black Caribbean boys are at the most disadvantage generally speaking. They not only tend to come from a working class background they are also fighting against the assumption that they are stupid.

Education, Education, Eductaion

Sometimes actually I think education is the problem. Too much, not too little. We value university education and 'posh' jobs (doctor, lawyer etc) so much more than so called 'menial' jobs. I get a real bee in my bonnet about it. The traditional jobs working class boys might have go into plumber/factory/warehouse etc have been so looked down on for years not people don't want to do them. They are painted as failures if you end up in a job like that, unemployment sometimes has higher social status, I know this because this is the community I grew up in. We need to stop looking down at people who do absolutely essential jobs. I was talking to a doctor friend about this a few years ago and we both agreed that bin men to more for public health than he does.

[quote ForTheCulture]Please watch the video in this link and explain why exactly I must revere this man who set up these concentration camps in African countries and starved 3 million people on a whim?

twitter.com/dijoni/status/1271830975618576390?s=19[/quote]
This extremely thoughtful and balanced view might interest you.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-need-to-talk-about-empire-a-conversation-about-britains-history-is-overdue-90cc8h99n?shareToken=5f6a70a938fbfe21823e5868953527fe

Sexism and racism are more complicated as they are often subconscious. The solution is still ONLY within the gift of the racist. The first step is probably examining your own attitudes isn't of the constant cry of 'I'm not racist'. For one thing, how do you know your not racist? Unconscious bias is just that, unconscious.

I think that's the difference from the past, the bias is unconscious. Previously people were overtly racist and sexist and didn't care about hiding it because there was no stigma involved. Now the majority of people wouldn't be seen dead admitting to being sexist/racist. What they say instead is 'I'm being not racist/sexist but....'

Seeing as thread is being derailed anyhow both boys and girls of the Gypsy /Roma ethnicity are the most disadvantaged when it comes to education. But there is nothing to be proud of, of the attainment of ANY kids on FSM .

@kendodd absolutely hopefully some of the tertiary education changes will help but the real sticker is the social status amongst peers and community despite earning power of some trad working class jobs.

'Classism' is alive and thriving in the U.K.
Doesn't 'white privilege' becomes a moot point when you have class divide?

[quote OrangeCinnamon]@kendodd absolutely hopefully some of the tertiary education changes will help but the real sticker is the social status amongst peers and community despite earning power of some trad working class jobs.[/quote]
This absolutely. So many nurses, scientists, teachers, high-street solicitors and other so called “middle-class professions” are on lower average wages than plumbers, electricians, tradesmen etc.. It seems like working class these days is defined as either a set of values, interests or actual job type rather than earning potential (e.g people seem to forget that almost 40% of people classified as working class voted remain but they are still painted as “avocado eating metropolitan elitists:”)

There’s no such thing as a homogenous working class in terms of either job type or salary anymore, no one definition whosever. I’m from a deprived coastal town on the South Coast and the experiences of the working class here are very different to that of people in the north. We don’t have any powerhouses down here. And definitely no one definition in terms of stereotypical culture or interests. It costs virtually nothing to attend an art gallery or a museum these days. Attending the symphony costs a fraction of the cost of attending a football match or a pop concert)

The government need to encourage more apprenticeships, more craftsmanship schemes to tap into the potential. Every one in this country is important. Most jobs are important to our economy. A lot of teachers and nurses make per hour less than the minimum wage for the extra hours they work. It’s a really fascinating thing to discuss. The working class of the past is nothing like the working class of the future. Menial or labour intensive job doesn’t necessarily mean low salary or low status and a highly educated job doesn’t mean high pay whatsoever which is why we don’t have Scientists driving around in Lamborghinis.

Doesn't 'white privilege' becomes a moot point when you have class divide?

Yes, definitely. Try telling the residents of Jaywick, living in one of the most deprived areas in England, that they're priviledged because they're white.

@slartibarti

The concept of “white privilege” means that a white person has the privilege of not being disadvantaged by the colour of their skin.

It does not mean that they are “privileged” in the general sense of the word.

For the Churchill haters in the audience, please take a look at the following:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=87Xkr8z3lEo

I can see an awful lot of People of Colour paying their respects at his funeral, which given this was 1965 and the BAME population of the UK was a lot smaller than it is now, makes it all the more remarkable.

Do you think they would have been there (bearing in mind they were alive at the time of Churchill) if they had thought the same as the section of the BLM crowd who defaced his statue and want it taken down?

That’s not what white privilege means. It only applies where there there are no conflating variables between two people and everything else remains constant as in all their other circumstances apart from race are identical (class, intelligence, disability, health, age etc.) A black man born into poverty in Jaywick will more than likely (not always) experience more obstacles than white man born into the same poverty in Jaywick. White privilege doesn’t mean a white poor man is more privileged than an upper class black woman! Not even close.

I think it’s a case of semantics. Maybe the word “privilege” isn’t a helpful descriptor. It doesn’t mean literal privilege but more a marginal advantage.

Just came across this opinion piece in the Guardian:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jun/14/white-privilege-is-a-lazy-distraction-leaving-racism-and-power-untouched

@OrangeCinnamon

Seeing as thread is being derailed anyhow both boys and girls of the Gypsy /Roma ethnicity are the most disadvantaged when it comes to education. But there is nothing to be proud of, of the attainment of ANY kids on FSM .

This

@slartibarti

Doesn't 'white privilege' becomes a moot point when you have class divide?

Yes, definitely. Try telling the residents of Jaywick, living in one of the most deprived areas in England, that they're priviledged because they're white.

And this!

GetOffYourHighHorse
Your post claimed: The thugs and vandals on both sides are as bad as each other. Missiles thrown at the police this week, ditto last week. 40 police officers injured last week, 4 this week.

So, what do you have to say now that the Met have said 23 (not 4) police officers were injured yesterday? Compare that with Cressida Dick reporting the figures of police officers injured on 7th June as 14 (not the 40 you claim) "This led to 14 officers being injured, in addition to 13 hurt in earlier protests this week" Even if we count the injuries in earlier protests, we're nowhere near 40...

Your figures seem rather skewed. Also, when deciding each group is "as bad as each other", it would be good to take a look at the numbers of people involved in each demonstration. I would suggest a much smaller crowd was at yesterday's protest in London and yet more police were injured. Can you explain that?

And while we are comparing apples and oranges, why not compare yesterday's London protest with the BLM protest in Brighton yesterday estimated attendees up to 10,000 - no arrests or reports of injuries made?

Baws - did you read DragOnFlyes post above yours? Maybe you should - especially this bit: White privilege doesn’t mean a white poor man is more privileged than an upper class black woman.

I think they've expressed this very well.

I don't care what colour people are- if they break the law on either side that is a bad thing.

On class issues yes if you are ina 100% white area of the UK which is very deprived eg my mother had 18 first cousins in Sunderland you are not getting any advantages due to being white in those poorest bits of Sunderland as everyone is white so you are sitll bottom of the heap and have fewer outreach programmes working class black boys have in inner London which is full of posh people keen to help London teenagers but not so keen to get off up to Sunderland to do the same mentoring and it may not look as good on your instagram feed as the picture is white on white rather than like a white celebrity who adopts a black baby from abroad which may be for show when there are plenty of very deprived local white children in need.

The traditional jobs working class boys might have go into plumber/factory/warehouse etc have been so looked down on for years not people don't want to do them.
I'm not sure this is true, Kenn. I think it's more a case of factory-type jobs disappearing. For most of his life, my Dad worked in a factory which was part of a group of automotive companies employing 92,000 people in various parts of the UK. The factory became defunct in 1996, along with many others around that time. Even on the factory floor, the workers were 'specialists' in what they did and were paid a decent wage. Now those jobs have gone and we have call centres and zero hours contracts and Working Tax Credits instead. I don't know if it's a case of 'looking down' on these jobs. They just don't exist any more.
Anyway - this is seriously off topic now!

The thugs and vandals on both sides are as bad as each other I'm not so sure one side was out to march the other was out to unnecessarily defend their white privilege.
The video were a gang of youths in hyde park spitting and kicking people having a picnic are vile, I hope they're arrested. Who owns these teenage dirt-bags.

Dont think it's that off topic... I feel racism stem from wealth inequality/class divide at the grass roots, compounded over generations. Today education should be a leveller but it still is not really in this country. If we want to resolve this problem, I'd start there.

'I'm not so sure one side was out to march the other was out to unnecessarily defend their white privilege.'

Some on both sides were out to cause trouble. Did you see the interviews with veterans who were there to protest over the vandalism?

I keep reading about Nazi salutes at Churchill's status yet haven't seen any footage.

I wonder why no arrests have been made over the defacement of The Cenotaph yet.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

And BBC News haven't mentioned Nazi salutes at all. It could be a garbled rumour that gets accepted as true when it isn't. The man urinating was discovered so I can't help thinking there would be footage of any Nazi salutes of there were any.