Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

Does it not have origins in theatre, when men were actors? There is a lot of cross dressing in Shakespearian stuff.
I'm old , and can remember the black and white minstrels which was dreadful. And reading huckleberry Finn for o levels which had n words galore.
I like panto though!

I was a huge fan of Alice Walker's books when I was younger. I'll never forget feeling that it doesn't matter what community you are from; if you are a woman some men (no matter their own experience) use their privilege to lash out, and you as a woman are fair game for hateful treatment.

Reading Alice, women's lives felt very fragile and susceptible to misogyny across the board.

Nobody gives a shit about offending women. You can't pretend to be black, Asian, gay, transgender or anything else, but pretending to be a woman is absolutely fine.

and if they are not hurting anyone

Bullshit. Calling women "fish" and joking about miscarriages and domestic violence and turning it into a joke does women PLENTY of harm.

Its vile, mysogynistic crap and it needs to end.

I hate drag. I get the “theatre” argument, but I have seen horrible misogynistic drag performances that made me feel really uncomfortable.

I dislike drag, and agree that it's a gross caricature of supposed female traits (the worst ones).

However, when it started, it was gay men using it in self-mockery and defence against a society that castigated them for being effeminate and 'weak'. I don't think they considered the insult to women.

Nowadays though, it ought to be banned, it's no better than blackface.

TheLastSaolo drag goes back far further than that.

500 years ago men were dressing as women on stage as women werent allowed. Go back to 500BC the ancient Greeks had men in drag performing, as women werent allowed on stage.

Men dressing as women has a fabulously long history rooted in female opression.

If it were just about wearing glittery clothes then I wouldn't give a shit. Why does it always seem to come with the insults?

You're allowed to be offended by anything. But noone has the right to not be offended.

The reason I move away from the word offended is that often being offended is combined with lack of power to change things, and I don’t want to be silent and seethe.

Especially reading those descriptions below.

I loathe drag, always have done. The vicious misogyny in it is so glaringly obvious, I genuinely can't understand how any woman can say she enjoys it or thinks it's funny.

I can guarantee you that if racism only affected black women no one would give a shit about it

This.

Whilst I do find it offensive I don’t find it as offensive as ‘black face’ Black people are dying in horrific numbers due to the colour of their skin, whilst women are still experiencing oppression it cannot be compared to what’s happening to black people, especially in America at the moment

Does anyone have the figures on how many women are killed each year by men? Or raped, assaulted or victimised in intimate situations? Or sold into sexual slavery or pornography?

and I reject completely that I am in any way homophobic

One could argue that saying gay men need to be able to say mysoginistic and disgusting things about women whilst dressed as a highly sexualised parody of what they think a woman is complete with derogatory name, just to feel accepted and included in life is in itself homophobic.

There was us thinking they were just regular guys who should be as capable of adhering to standards of behaviour as their straight counterparts ...

If this means we can get rid of Mrs Browns Boys, I’m in

And this!

Trying to work out what the equivalent would be.

Women dressing up as men.

What would they wear for the hyper stereotyped costumes? Business suits? Cut off jean shorts? Fat suits? Muscle suits? Fake armpit hair?

What would the jokes be about? Beating up other men? Cars? Call of Duty? Inability to see dirty plates? Just constant penis jokes?

I'm lost when I try to work it out. Why doesn't reverse drag exist? And if it did what would it be like?

Somehow it's only ok in one direction. True of so many things in life.

Bloody hell, BankofNook that is fucking grim.

yes a previous poster said it: 2 women a week murdered, 10 an hour raped (holy shit I didn't know that)

@ThatLockdownLyfe

Trying to work out what the equivalent would be.

Women dressing up as men.

What would they wear for the hyper stereotyped costumes? Business suits? Cut off jean shorts? Fat suits? Muscle suits? Fake armpit hair?

What would the jokes be about? Beating up other men? Cars? Call of Duty? Inability to see dirty plates? Just constant penis jokes?

I'm lost when I try to work it out. Why doesn't reverse drag exist? And if it did what would it be like?

Somehow it's only ok in one direction. True of so many things in life.

French and Saunders' horrible old fat men? That's the only equivalent I can think of. And they were, at least, intentionally gross, not dressed up as 'hen night entertainment'.

Woman face is fine though isn't it. The same as white face is fine. Lots of TV shows being pulled but what about white chicks where black men pretend to be white women? Why is nobody campaigning for that to be removed.

*theonlywayisapple

PaulineScrambledPhones
Women don’t count as people. Surely you know that by now?
Jesus Christ. Imagine going around thinking this. I feel sorry for you*

Do you really think we’re on a level playing field?

I guess there's a distinction between drag acting and drag queens.

Drag queens, mainly, born out of the NY gay scene.

Drag acting, mainly, born out of thinking it's funny to see a man in a dress.

Not sure I can think of any good argument for supporting the latter.

I think it is a bit worrying if women need to ask if they are allowed to feel something. You can feel whatever you feel, no need to ask for permission.

I loathe drag. I don’t understand how it came to be seen as an art form.

Fingers crossed we can finally get the shite that is Mrs Brown's Boys off the telly. Not keen on drag queens, I find it offensive, and not keen on drag acting. A bloke wearing a dress isn't inherently funny. And shouldn't be used to ridicule women in this day and age.