Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

Women don’t count as people. Surely you know that by now?

I did wonder whether Drag was ‘woman face’ and on a par with black face.

I'm offended by it, and I don't give a rat's arse whether that's 'allowed' or not.

The irony that Walliams blacking up is unacceptable and thus being removed from repeats yet the bitty sketch is staying.

How many women, choosing to feed their baby in a public space have heard that hurled at them by grown up little boys who think it’s hilarious?

It's OK to be offended about racism because racism affects men in obvious and substantial ways. I can guarantee you that if rcaism only affected black women no one would give a shit about it. As for drag, it is almost exclusively performed by men and if it offends it it is only offensive to women, ergo it will never be seen as a problem.

Have you noticed the trend yet of justifying things that offend and harm women by positioning them as vital to the rights of another disadvantaged group? We aren't allowed to be offended by "Karen" because apparently its an anti racist term (in imaginary land), you can't be offended by drag or surrogacy because that's homophobic, you can't want your own spaces, rights, or language because that's anti trans, you can't be anti pornography because that kink shaming, you can't be against prostitution because then how will disabled men have sex? Even our reproductive rights re currently being painted as ableist. Women, does this male behaviour offend or harm you? Too bad. We've just hitched it to another more popular groups rights (hint: every group is more popular than women) and positioned it as integral to their dignity and freedom. Now you can't complain without looking like a bigot. It's classic heads we win, tails you lose.

Oftern overtly sexual, offensive regarding menstruation/vaginas.

I went to see a drag act with a group of friends as part of a hen night and it was like this. Lots of "jokes" about the stench of minge in the room, "jokes" about domestic violence where he singled out a women and made fun of her appearance before saying that with a body like that the only thump her husband must ever give her is across the face with his fist, "jokes" about weight where he commented about some women squeezing size 20 arses into size 8 Primark leggings, and so on. It was cruel and nasty rather than funny and none of these comments were directed towards any of the men in the room.

YANBU OP, but it’s not PC to say it so we all just have to laugh along.

Just like we’re all conditioned into seeing free porn as at the click of a button as liberating, otherwise we’re hysterical prudes.

Will there be marches about either of these issues any time soon?

Maybe one day, they’ll look back on porn and see it for what it is. Just like we would now if there were sites showing millions of free videos of people of certain ethnic groups or religions being spat on, raped, choked and humiliated. History will ask, “How could they have let this happen...?”

We can but hope.

What is a woman's face? The difference between black face and drag is that black people are born black; women are not born wearing make up.

^^ this!
Yes, my experience of drag was exactly like this too. There was lots of ‘what a waste’ type of comments towards women they didn’t view as making the most of their assets or their womanhood by choosing short hair/no make-up, being overweight etc.

That was to @BankofNook

Ants it’s the regressive caricature side of both that is comparable.

I thought everyone was already offended by it - personally I’m not.

But drag was born from a time where homosexuality was illegal.

For male sex workers, it became an acceptable way from them to be out in public. The Stonewall riots in Ny were in large part a reaction to police brutality against gay sex workers.

It then transitioned into an underground scene amongst the gay community, becoming especially important as the scene became more public and then was hit so hard by the AIDS pandemic.

Drag has its own history, it's own culture and it's own place.

Very different from blackface which was about allowing black culture to be appropriated by white people.

I’ve never thought of it this way before but you’re so right! I have always found it offensive but couldn’t articulate why. But yes, they are always SO rude about women it’s like the equivalent of the minstrel show but against women.

Ants - it not just the make up though. It’s the whole mocking of exaggerated bitchiness, as if this is a female characteristic, and overt sexuality as if that’s what we’re all about. I can’t understand the appeal at all and the whole thing is very unpleasant imo.

I agree. Drag is offensive to women

God no, they have to read the children stories don't you know.

I find it offensive. Never understood why anyone would want to watch it. Only ever been to a live drag show once - friends took me along as one of the singers was a friend of a friend. I figured the audience was probably a mix of people who felt sorry for transvestites and were supporting them by attending so they have an income (which is how my friends came across), and those who want to fuck them. But the singers seemed vulnerable and fucked up to me, so I felt deeply uncomfortable.

I can't for the life of me understand how Papa Lazarou in the League of Gentlemen is deemed offensive and "blackface" (he's not) when the cast spend half their time dressed as, and acting, women and no-one says a word.
In one episode, they have a man, playing a woman dressed as a man.

They do it very well. They are actors: it's their job.

I find it offensive but you know....I'm just a woman, my opinion doesn't count.

Excellent thread, Chosenone, it is disgusting. I'd never given it any thought other than to loath drag 'artistry' and pay it no attention. It actually DOES need attention.

Anna Bortion? FFS. Imagine the furore if even the mildest insult were aimed at men?

Yes when I went they were deeply misogynistic towards women. I thought they all seemed sad and bitter and twisted and fucked up.

In a room full of held tilty leftie do-gooders thinking being there was 'right on' and oddball men who would probably never tell their wives they are out screwing vulnerable men.

Horrid, seedy, sad.

TheLastSaola lots of things used to be historically acceptable.

Drag is a vile way to imitate, intimidate and charicature the female sex and has no place in our society.

Sure, there may be other aspects of drag that you don't like, fair enough. Each to their own. My comment was specifically around comparing it to black face, which I personally don't think is a valid comparison.

Personally I love it but as a thought experiment, I agree with you. Taking the piss out of women (eg. The endless jokes about nagging wives, the long haired general, her indoors etc) is still totally acceptable. But anyone else who is perceived to be at a disadvantage can ban anything that might cause offence.