Are women allowed to be offended by Drag/ women face now then?

[Chosennone]

Things are changing. Strange times. Midst Pandemic. Horrific events in the USA. people are 'waking' up to oppression and inappropriateness within comedy.
If it is no longer seen as acceptable to wear any kind of black costume, seen in LB, LOG, Ant & Dec, surely it is time that a sensible debate could be had on Drag. Is it acceptable? Is it not a mockery of female features for comedy in the same way original blackface was?
If not, why not?

I read that it has been banned from some pride events because it was triggering

Well men who dress as women but know they are men and are happy to be men must harm the cause a bit I guess.

*and accept it

I don't think drag queens are there to take the piss out of women (mostly, at least!), it is a form of self expression, and if they are not hurting anyone, and feel comfortable this way, what's the harm?
As for David Walliams on little Britain, I cant see how that is racist, when many different characters are portrayed..there just happens to be a black character amongst lots of others.
I really dont get how people can find offence in so much, that wasnt being intended
I get that if a man has transitioned to a female there would be things such as sports which would give an unfair advantage etc
I know I'll get flamed for this!

My argument is that it was born from oppression at a time when it was illegal to have gay sex. When men were ostracised, beaten and criminalised for being gay.

If you want to say it should no longer be allowed because it is too misogynistic - then that is fine and an argument you can make.

But it isn't comparable to black face because the criticism of black face is specifically about its origins..

And you do have to at least acknowledge the historical origins of drag before you can remove it - otherwise, sorry, but I think criticism too often verges on homophobia.

In actuality I don't mind the exaggerated dressing up as a woman as such (don't particularly like it either but I'm indifferent) It's the usual jokes that accompany this persona that I find SO offensive to women.
So jokes about fishy vagina smells or gaping over stretched vaginas always seem to be used and also usually targeting women in the audience in order to 'roast' them on their appearance ect. The stereotypical bitchy persona of what they perceive a woman should act like is frustrating and not funny. I'm not a prude by any means but just endless jokes about vaginas ect isn't funny.

If this means we can get rid of Mrs Browns Boys, I’m in.

am uncomfortable about the whataboutery element of this just at the present time.

I don't think it is "whataboutery". Whataboutery is normally used to minimise the importance of the original issue. This is not at all doing that - but is drawing a comparison which says "we support your issue, but would like to draw attention to our issue too, please."

Gosh no! Perish the thought. Women aren't allowed to even be called by their own name. Even the name has been appropriated.

14yearsandcounting women are dying in horrific numbers due to their sex. Women are killed and raped just for being female every day, all over the world. Just in England and Wales we are raped at a rate of 10 an hour and killed at a rate of 3 a week. Just because that's happening at the hands of the general public rather than the police doesn't make it less urgent. Like a pp said, that doesn't diminish the importance of BLM. We can care about both things, and we should. But to pretend that women aren't under daily physical threat just for being female is plain wrong.

I don't actually like the term "woman face" tbh because I think the concept of black face needs and deserves to stand alone, but I understand and agree with the point the OP is making.

@14yearsandcounting

Whilst I do find it offensive I don’t find it as offensive as ‘black face’ Black people are dying in horrific numbers due to the colour of their skin, whilst women are still experiencing oppression it cannot be compared to what’s happening to black people, especially in America at the moment. Right now the battle against racism seems more urgent to me.

Firstly, it's not a case of one or the other. You can protest in favour of BLM and also protest against misogyny when it occurs.

Secondly, femicide is a huge problem across the world. Millions of girls are aborted or murdered shortly after birth because they are female. Women are murdered because they transgress moral codes.

Theres no comparison - it's not 1 cause or the other. You are allowed to fight against both.

Whilst I do find it offensive I don’t find it as offensive as ‘black face’ Black people are dying in horrific numbers due to the colour of their skin, whilst women are still experiencing oppression it cannot be compared to what’s happening to black people, especially in America at the moment. Right now the battle against racism seems more urgent to me.

As 50% of the black community are women, I think they will be very much concerned with the oppression of women.

women are dying in horrific numbers due to their sex. Women are killed and raped just for being female every day, all over the world. Just in England and Wales we are raped at a rate of 10 an hour and killed at a rate of 3 a week. Just because that's happening at the hands of the general public rather than the police doesn't make it less urgent

This. I'm shocked anyone would not be aware of this 😳

You can still be offended by stuff. You're just not allowed to be hateful about it.

BLM campaign is essential. This is not taking anything away from the campaign. There is an element of 'whataboutery', i agree. I also agree that women as a sex (unless they are BAME) have made headway in terms of equality, particularly in the UK. However violence, sexual violence, is still very current. Weinstein and Epstein all very current. Consent matters.
My issue is with popular culture. Has anyone ever called out RuPauls drags race or do we need to be woke about that. Not as offensive as some of the live acts mentioned earlier but still regressive caricatures.

Actually I think it’s less about being offended than given license today to say it’s comparable to black face. And what happens next

Which also hasn’t been really talked about for a while.

A trans woman quite clearly took the piss out of women on Facebook saying that the furlough scheme was to prop up the useless and feckless, mostly women so they can stay at home and maintain their sprogs that they can't afford... yeah but it was ok for the NHS to prescribe you hormones and give you a fake rack though wasn't it Amy (Alan) 🙄. The comment wasn't deemed offensive. I found it highly offensive. I can afford my 'sprog' but I never predicted a world pandemic when I had him. Also, a man, my DH, actually created him too! People need to ask if this trans women/women fall out is actually all about women or the fact that some trans women are just plane nasty. Women tend to state facts, they aren't nasty. Like JK Rowling, she just stated a fact ffs

How was that received by the audience?

Laughing from plenty of them, the thump one got the biggest laugh from the men, lots of groans and mock-offended "ooooh"'s, some "urg"'s or "oh my god"'s. A few sitting stony faced like myself and a couple of my friends who were singled out as miserable bitches, asked if we were lesbians, and then advised that we needed a good fuck. The hen was loving it but she'd specifically asked to go there. She asked for a photo with him at one point and he posed beside her chair with one foot up on the seat beside her then just before the photo was taken he grabbed her head and shoved her face into his crotch.

I'm sure not all drags acts are so crass but in everyone I've seen there is an undercurrent of nastiness towards women.

I have always found drag unfunny and repellent, and don't get how it is not seen as highly offensive to women. I don't get, for example, how it is OK to have RuPaul's Drag race on prime time TV.

and I reject completely that I am in any way homophobic.

I find it offensive to women and should be banned aswell as men being allowed to talk about womens vaginas or any input in pregnancy (only if you have a doctorate can you comment) men should be banned from saying WE are pregnant aswell

Vile misogyny dressed up as comedy.

*Laughing from plenty of them, the thump one got the biggest laugh from the men, lots of groans and mock-offended "ooooh"'s, some "urg"'s or "oh my god"'s. A few sitting stony faced like myself and a couple of my friends who were singled out as miserable bitches, asked if we were lesbians, and then advised that we needed a good fuck. The hen was loving it but she'd specifically asked to go there. She asked for a photo with him at one point and he posed beside her chair with one foot up on the seat beside her then just before the photo was taken he grabbed her head and shoved her face into his crotch.

I'm sure not all drags acts are so crass but in everyone I've seen there is an undercurrent of nastiness towards women.*

Fuck me. It really, really belongs in another era. I can't believe we are forced to tolerate and celebrate this reductive and appalling act.

I loathe the misogynistic crap that comes with drag. They're male. Why should they be any less misogynistic than any other male? And yes, we're allowed to object and be offended and irritated and even horrified. Fuck anyone who tells me I can't be.

I don't think drag queens are there to take the piss out of women (mostly, at least!), it is a form of self expression, and if they are not hurting anyone,

This comes across as quite uninformed and considering some of the examples given on this very thread is surprising. Did you read the thread? Have you seen drag acts? Anna Bortion, women smell fishy, minge, exaggerated bitchiness and sexuality. Just on this thread fgs. The only expression there is of misogyny. Please inform yourself.

@Louisesp82 why would you get "flamed". Hardly "out there" in your opinions are you? Your whole post just comes across as if you're living in cloud cuckoo land....."oh but if they're not hurting anyone".

Can't you see the bigger picture?