To doubt my marriage over this..

[Beeech]

DH and I have been together for 7 years and have one child together.

Our marriage is great, he's a fantastic husband and father. I can't believe how lucky I've been.

But last night, he shocked me. Whilst discussing the BLM protests, he announced that he didn't believe white prividge doesn't exist. In fact, he believes that everyone has equal opportunity in this country. When I asked even women? He said that's different and unacceptable but he doesn't believe that skin colour doesn't impact the opportunities available to people.

I was gobsmacked and beyond furious at his ignorance. We had a big argument which had left me doubting if I can be with someone so fucking stupid!?

AIBU

I honestly think being female is a greater disdvantage (sic) than being a darker skin colour in today's jobs market but that's just my opinion

So black women get a double-whammy, their experience has been described as racism x misogyny.

BTW, just in case there’s any misunderstandings, I live in NI which has a relatively small BAME community, not that I’m favouring others. I’m not going to go out seeking out a BAME friend just to prove I’m not racist! Yup, I’m aware that does happen. I was once the minority (due to religion) friend and discovered very quickly, it was so my ‘friend’ could abuse another of my religious background, while claiming not to be bigoted, because she had a (insert religion) friend.

FWIW I wouldn't end the marriage (yet) but I would work hard to get him to understand his white supremacy world. In your position I would see it as my duty as someone who wants to be anti-racist.

If he refused to engage our still didn't get it then I might question our relationship. Mainly as that would mean he's either a) stupid or b) racist.

Does he think white straight males where born with some sort of edge over everyone else then to get them in a much much higher majority of top paying and powerful jobs?

Whether or not he has thought about this deeply enough to discuss it, look at who he is and how he acts fgs. How does he treat black people? Is he humane in his interactions with others? Is he a good man at heart with the right intentions who just needs to think a bit more to understand? There are a lot of people who have suddenly got "woke" and correct almost overnight... they've been doing a lot of reading I guess.

"I agree he’s wrong but some differences just have to be buried I’m afraid."

Some differences, maybe. Not this one.
Dealbreaker (for me anyway).

Yes, race and social inequality make the other marginalisations even harder. And on top of that you have particular sexism/racism combinations, for example, that attaches itself specifically to black women and assumptions about them.

As a white middle class disabled women I suffer from being female and being disabled and all the shit that goes with that. So, work place sexism, workplace ableism, and then dealing with male doctors and gender bias within medicine. And I'm white, highly educated and articulate and have the money to access private healthcare etc and it's STILL a problem.

Now try being black and poor and disabled and a woman. Fuck me. That's quadrupling the marginalisations. We know, for example, that black people have worse health outcomes from medical care, and their pain levels, for example, are taken less seriously. We also know that women are taken less seriously by the medical establishment. So being a black disabled woman is seriously going to suck.

I think he is sheltered, well very sheltered.

I've never actually seen someone be racist to another person, but I know that people like that do, sadly, exist. I'm guessing because has maybe not witnessed it either, most likely not witnessed it in the workplace where he is meaning, then he thinks it just doesn't exist.

Don't think you should divorce him, educate him. Once he understands, I'm sure he'll come around. He's aware that women don't get the same opportunities, so he's not a complete lost cause yet.

I think it's very OTT to leave/divorce someone who doesn't share your opinions.

DH has very different views to me on a lot of major issues, but I don't think his views are grounds for leaving/divorcing him.
We just don't discuss them any more.

Tbh I'm prob same as husband

I think it's very OTT to leave/divorce someone who doesn't share your opinions.

So @handbagsatdawn33 if your husband thought, I dunno, that women shouldn't be allowed to work or vote, you'd just "not discuss it" any more?

I recognize the reality of "white privilege", in a certain measure.

But ending a successful and happy marriage over it's recognition in one discussion is borderline stupid. Or just plain stupid.
Talk with your husband, go a bit more in depth with your discussion than just discussing your kids, your day, what to eat and watch on TV, and what to do this weekend. Because if you actually have a true relationship of equals, this should have come up much much earlier.
Oh, and if you divorce over this and have to tell your kids why their family is split, be frank. Don't call your ex a racist, call him ignorant of a concept that took off in the 2010's.

You both sound a bit pathetic tbh.

It seems weird if this stuff hasn't come up in 7 years?

Maybe he hasn't thought about it enough, I wouldn't be jumping to call someone stupid over this, have a conversation.

As I mentioned I don't think any of us should approach this self-righteously. We all have a lot to learn. If we point at other people and claim they are racist without also having the humility to admit we also have a lot to learn, it's dangerous.

For a start it's delusional, there can be all kinds of ways that we are privileged that we are oblivious to. As an example as a white skinned person I don't think there has ever been a time when I have had to wonder how I might be treated in an area new to me. How an older person might speak to me if they see me in a rural village or if I had to break a back window to get in because I had locked myself out.

For me the only the times that I have not been part of the majority was when I was staying with a Black American friend and when we were socializing in Washington D.C.. I went to night clubs and restaurants where I was the only white person, sometimes in a crowd of hundreds. It of course made me think about what it must be like for my friend who could often be in an environment with no other black people, and how some white people expected her to be a representative for everyone black.

It's just a fact that if we are white we can usually move through the world without being questioned, without suspicion, or second looks, without being followed around a shop.

If we take the time to listen to black voices we can always learn more. We can all learn from each other.

But if we approach this issue with the idea that others have a lot to learn but we don't as we are not racist, then we have blinkers on.

@OfaFrenchmind2
Oh, and if you divorce over this and have to tell your kids why their family is split, be frank. Don't call your ex a racist, call him ignorant of a concept that took off in the 2010's.

Lol. Well said.

The said thing is that the real hardcore racists - say 5-10% of the population - love the “ultra woke”/social justice middle class warrior types branding half the population of the UK as racists, just because they don’t unquestioningly swallow and adopt new buzz words like white privilege. They love it because it ends up blurring the battle lines as to who is racist and who isn’t, and then they gain courage and start jabbering on more about free speech and the war against their (white) cultural heritage. The majority of the population of the UK would avoid an outright racist as a partner (the UK being, on the whole, a relatively prejudice free country compared to most other countries) but would consider divorcing because of a disagreement over whit privilege as batshit crazy.

Great post @wishingstarr

@My0My

Thank goodness for common sense

They should have the same opportunites. They should not be discriminated against. But they are. BUT it is a crime -so they SHOULD have the same opportunities. Show him this and then ask him again - this compares SAME qualification and yet a 20% gap in pay www.theguardian.com/money/2016/feb/01/pay-gap-black-white-uk-workers-widens-more-qualifications by the same thought process there should be no sexism yet again men are paid more and that's just paid more: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/04/gender-pay-gap-figures-show-eight-in-10-uk-firms-pay-men-more-than-women

I think you are being unreasonable. Essentially you have two disagreements. One is about things like opportunities, and one is about calling it white privilege.

But my question would be, if you respect him, and think he's a good person, why are you so sure he's not correct, or partially correct, or maybe he is just thinking from a different angle? Are you sure you've really explored what he means about those topics, they aren't totally straightforward?

Not everyone who has differences of opinion on those things is necessarily a bigot, or someone who supports racism.

Something that doesn't get talked about a lot, especially right at this moment, is that there are whole groups of black people who might agree or partially agree with your husband, who may take a conservative perspective, or who think white privilege is an unhelpful idea, or dislike some of the popular antiracist movements and even think they are counterproductive. If you wouldn't tell them they don't have a right to think that way, why would you say your husband doesn't have a right to either?

There are some views that are beyond the pale, but there is room for different perspectives on others, and also room sometimes for people to be mistaken about the facts without it reflecting on their morals.

It sounds like your DH needs educating. It’s normal for those with the most privilege to resent the discussion when they first become aware of it. I like the quote earlier that to the privileged, equality seems like oppression.

Just continue to give examples about how privilege exists and how discrimination happens all the time. There are some amazing videos out there that turn real life examples on their head in terms of sex, gender, race etc (so instead of a room full of white people asking an Indian woman if their mum makes amazing curries, it will be a room full of Asian people asking a white man if his dad makes amazing pies). That’s a flippant example but flipping these situations on their head really makes you realise how ridiculous our assumptions and biases are and also how they definitely do happen on a daily basis. Maybe something like that could bring it to life a bit more?

I also have to say that in a lot of the world (particularly the US) it’s a mainstream view to think everyone had the power to shape their own destiny and a lot less weight is given to the concept of unequal opportunities - that’s the basic concept underpinning the American Dream. People like to think if other people haven’t done as well as they have then it’s their fault, not down to worse opportunities. Clearly this is inaccurate, but if it was my DH I’d be patient and put time and effort into educating him as long as he’s not given any other indications of racism during your relationship.

I don't believe that not recognising/understanding white privilege is the same as being racist.
I think most white guys would not get white privilege, ironically, because they've never been discriminated against. Due to that very thing.
It doesn't make him racist, a bad person, whatever. .
It does make him ignorant regarding the experiences of large groups of people in this world and in the UK. He needs his eyes opened about the experiences of others. But you can't force your viewpoint on him.
I don't feel you should end the marriage over this either.

I think this is a wind up - don't believe it's real.

I work with explaining white privilege to people every day. The people who have most difficultly understanding and accepting it are white, educated men. In their place on top of the pile they can´t see the privilege that has got them there, and they are not infrequently resistant to changing that view of the world. What I suggest you do is not argue with him, not issue ultimatums, but discuss and educate. He won't get it tomorrow, but over time, if he is an intelligent, reasoned person who listens to others, then he will. So I wouldn't end your marriage over this right now, and I wouldn't give ultimatums, but I would use this as an opportunity to educate.

OP - you still have a good marriage. You are going to have to find some evidence to show him otherwise.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-38751307