Please help me understand the transgender issue

[Flippetydip]

I fully admit that I don't understand this issue fully at all. I consider myself fairly liberal but I do not feel that this is fair. It seems to be the Emperor's new clothes. The fact that the comments towards JKR on Twitter are so full of vitriol does not persuade me towards the thinking of those shouting them.

So my questions:

Emma Watson saying on Twitter
"Transwomen are who they say they are"
If I say I am a size 8, intellectually brilliant woman, does that make me so? (Currently size 12, edging towards a 14 and intellectually fairly mediocre).

What is the difference between appropriation of sex and appropriation of race?
If I say I am black and I'm not, why is that so horrific, and yet if I am a man and say I'm a woman, that is OK?

Why is JKR wrong to say that women menstruate? Surely that is just biological fact.

Would many women feel uncomfortable about a trans man (without a penis) using a women's bathroom?

Also @ShebaShimmyShake so it seems that another issue that's making people uncomfortable is the removal of women's identity? I read something the other day that I've struggled to find again since that really made my jaw drop regarding that. Surely either identity matters, or it doesn't? Meaning, if a transperson's identity definition is truly important, then it is just as important as a woman's identity? Is there much literature covering that?

Brilliant thread here that sums up a lot of concerns

twitter.com/samuelvimes10/status/1271170904379265025?s=21

According to a reply on that thread, concerns about 'Steve' are tarring all transpeople with the same brush. How is that so?

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

According to a reply on that thread, concerns about 'Steve' are tarring all transpeople with the same brush. How is that so?

It is a common tactic used by the activists. Denial that this exists.

Strangely, they quickly say that the likes of Karen White are not 'real' transwomen (incidentally, they also say detransitioners were NEVER trans in the first place too.)

It’s classic NAMALT

Look at this Twitter feed. It’s tremendous!! ♥️

mobile.twitter.com/RossVodt/status/1270241662015385600

I agree with JK

JKR women menstruate? Surely that is just biological fact.

I menstruate. I also have PCOS, I bleed heavily I have to have D&C's, internal scans. I am at risk for cervical cancer. Trans women don't and can't have any of those problems. Biological fact that's all nothing else to it.

Meme "I struggle to understand why a transwoman would insist on using a women's bathroom, if not for the fact that they are worried for their safety if they have to share a bathroom with males, as then the likelihood of them being attacked is increased ten fold. Yet that same logic isn't being applied to why women want to protect their single sex spaces?"

This graphic illustrates the issue.

It just seems so, so dangerous to conflate safety concerns with transphobia, doesn't it? Isn't it counterproductive to suggest that if you're worried about 'Steve' then you have a problem with transgender people? Because 'Steve' isn't transgender!!

BuzzShitbag hits the nail on the head.
I prefer to identify as a cat at times.
Then I do f all except stretch around, sleep, eat and knock over stuff in my way.
I can also go out and no worry about the lack of toilet facilities as I can just do my business where ever I choose.

@BuzzShitbagBobbly I have to admit that made me smile, despite the fact that I know it's very serious, and irritating. I'm sure reasonable people fighting for transgender equality don't follow that reasoning, do they?

Okay, so - if women, particularly feminist women, are abusing transgender people verbally and causing them to feel unsafe, doesn't that mean that a transwoman would not be safe from violence or attacks in a women's bathroom?

This is how scared they are Meme

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/4483858/moment-transgender-group-and-feminist-activists-clash-in-extraordinary-brawl-in-hyde-park-that-leaves-one-60-year-old-woman-on-the-floor/amp/

I also don’t want any men in women’s spaces. Except transmen. Because they are women.

We need Women’s spaces and Gender neutral spaces routinely everywhere.

There is a reason we used to use the term “gentlemen”. Gentle men felt women only spaces were a reasonable ask to protect women from men who were not gentle men.

Gentle men need to protect transwomen. Gentle men need to protect vulnerable men from male violence. Gentle men would see why giving violent men access to women is a backward step. Gentle transwomen would see that too. There are aggressive men and aggressive transwomen.

I don’t let the gentlemen in so the aggressive men stay out. And I don’t let the gentle transwomen in so the aggressive transwomen stay out.

Men need to solve this by giving up their men only spaces and leave women’s spaces alone. Some women will use both. But then women have a choice and transwomen are protected by not needing to go into male only spaces.

Transmen are welcome to pee in the next cubicle to me.

@buzzshitbag Yes!!! Why is this logic so hard to understand? Why does believing this mean you suck dick & die?

should

In a labour ward, your never going to get a
TW in there in labour. Because it is physically impossible for a TW to give actual birth.

If a TW turned up to hospital and said they were in labour with stomach pains would they be admitted to the labour ward for fear of someone being accused of a hate crime for not agreeing to admit them to the labour ward?

You may get a transman (which defeats the object I think of saying your the opposite sex you are as I don't think you can have it both ways to suit but that's another thread really isn't it).

So if a TW knows that they can't give birth why all this palava over renaming sanitary products for periods they don't have and wanting to call women menstruators or vulva Owners or whatever they want us to be called.

I've been dieting and walking since all this lockdown began and I've lost a stone which is really frustrating as I really want to be a 12 but I'm not im a 14/16 but I can't go kicking off in department stores because a 12 doesn't fit me even though I really feel like it should.

I am happy to support trans people for additional spaces but I don't think that should mean I have to give away my rights in single sex spaces.

Surely the fact they are pissing off they people they claim to be the same as proves there is a difference between us.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

It just seems so, so dangerous to conflate safety concerns with transphobia, doesn't it? Isn't it counterproductive to suggest that if you're worried about 'Steve' then you have a problem with transgender people? Because 'Steve' isn't transgender!!

But the point is that if you open up Self ID you have no way of knowing who is genuinely transgender and who is pretending.

This whole argument, for me at least, has never been about transgender individuals, it has been about opening up female spaces to anyone who wants to declare themselves so.

Some people try to argue that “people with bad intentions will try to get in with or without the rules”. My answer to that is if you keep chickens you know the fox will want to try and catch them, so you lock the door to the hen house to protect them - you don’t leave it wide open for him as an invitation!

Quite. I’m happy to share space with transmen because most would avoid making women uncomfortable. Because they understand and have lived as women. And they aren’t dicks.

I agree that people with bad intentions will try to get in to these spaces regardless of the rules. But at the moment, if you see a man in the women's toilets at McDonalds (yes, I fancy McDonald's), you can alert a member of staff, or security in some places, and they can be asked to leave before any offences take place. By making access a free for all, all red flags are removed and I do feel that attacks will become more frequent.

McDonald's maybe if I say it three times it will appear in front of me.

If you were to swap bodies with a man you would still be you, and part of being you is being a woman (gender) and even though you would have a penis (sex). That is how trans people feel.

Having a sex different to your gender makes some people self-harm, suffer MH, even kill themselves. Whereas receiving medical treatment, kindness and respect, enables many to live good happy productive lives instead of traumatic lives.

I’m not trans so I will never fully understand it, but I’ve seen first hand how difficult it can be for trans people to navigate even the simplest parts of life ie. which toilet am I least likely to be beaten up for using. I’ve also seen people flourish once they have what they need to be themselves.

I have no intention of treating any section of humanity with anything but kindness and respect.

After discussing this earlier in the thread however, I can't get on side with suicide and MH problems being a good reason to step away from raising your own concerns.

Women commit suicide, suffer from MH problems and self harm due to having been sexually or physically abused. This is also a good enough reason to respect the fears that they have alongside the fears that transgender people have, instead of disregarding them entirely.

abstract it may not bother you to share facilities with a male bodied person but can’t you see how it could be e the ely triggering for a survivor of DV/SA. Surely the solution is to campaign for a third “gender neutral” space rather than force women to move over and make way?

No one is talking about not treating people with kindness and respect, but that works both ways and women's wishes need to be taken into account too.

@wrongsideofhistorymyarse
I’ve just seen your post from 8.30ish. You’ve totally totally misunderstood what I said. I was telling the poster I don’t give a fuck about NAMALT or NATWALT and that I want single sex spaces to be single sex spaces.