To be utterly disgusted by the protests today.

[SoggySocksAgain]

Am I alone here?

I am utterly disgusted by what I have seen in the news.

@Raella50 @DestinationFkd I defer you to @LemonadeAndDaisyChains apt reply to this.

You don't exactly see statues of Hitler and Nazis dotted around Germany. Just because it's part of the country's history doesn't mean it deserves to be idolised.

No one mentioned anything about idolisation @livingoffcoffee
It's about the wanton vandalism.

Lol at calling it a "bandwagon" rather than a a civil movement finally gathering momentum. The privileged really will do anything to maintain the status quo.

@DestinationFkd What purpose is there of a statue other than to remember and admire someone

Most of the statues of men in my town are of men who were probably sexist, racist and possibly awful to the poor. They were commemorated for certain acts at a time in history, some for philanthropist acts and others for scientific discoveries etc Do I think they were good people? Well it’s very hard to judge people by our standards today when they were poorly educated in many of these important issues and lived in very different times. Thankfully we’ve moved on as a society from then. I do think it’s important to remember where we’ve come from and what we’ve done/ seen/ caused/ influences throughout time and only by doing so can we celebrate but also learn from our past failings. If people would like to move these statues elsewhere then personally I’m all for it but I wouldn’t assume my own opinions are more important than that of the general public. This hysterical mob decided to take it upon itself to destroy an historical statue without any consultation or otherwise.

Assumption is dangerous @marinepsychiatrist

No one mentioned admiring it either @livingoffcoffee

@DestinationFkd

How strange that people have walked past these monuments for as long as they've stood there and never batted an eyelid. Now suddenly they must become destroyed and defaced. I wonder how much bigger the bandwagon is going to get. I'm surprised it hasn't collapsed under the weight of everyone jumping on it.

I can understand the anger about the Slave trader monument. However defacing the Cenotaph, and Churchill’s statue, and burning the U.K. flag I out of order.

85-80% of the people of these Islands are White. These monuments are part of their history. I object to people destroying and defacing them.

I have said before all these protests are going to do is set back the cause of Race Relations in this country years.

I am not responsible for the actions of my forefathers. Some of those actions were shit, but some of them are something to be very proud of.

@DestinationFkd That's the inherent purpose of a statue/monument.

I've not disagreed @livingoffcoffee
What I disagree with is the wanton vandalism.

What I disagree with is the wanton vandalism

I disagree with vandalism too. Always have.
What was it doing up in 2020 anyway? It has no place in today's society.
I hate vandalism, but I can't get worked up over it ending up where it did.
If people have been upset over it for years and campaigned for it to be taken down, but ignored, what else are they supposed to do?
Leaflet campaigns and signatures mean sod all in this case by the look of it.

You can't rewrite history.

You kind of can, that’s what historians do, in a sense.

Perspectives change.

This.

Can't find it in myself to get up in arms about a polyester flag.

@Masakabuzz
I have said before all these protests are going to do is set back the cause of Race Relations in this country years.

Why will it?
Because racist people will get 'more' racist?

Or are you trying to say that non racist people will become racist?

Can't find it in myself to get up in arms about a polyester flag.

I can. Not fussed on the statue in the harbour, and the pockets of disorderly seemed to be a small number of people compared to those peacefully protesting, even the fact that we are in a pandemic it's understandable people feel strongly enough to attend. But many people of all ethnicities have laid down their lives for this country, to afford the freedoms which include, the right to protest. It's what the flag symbolises and where it was located. Even in the video people are telling him to get down, but because of the actions of that one individual, one of the enduring images is of that, sadly. Leave the cenotaph alone and have some respect, yes there are changes that are needed in this country too, but we are no doubt better off than if we hadn't had people fight for us. So he is a disrespectful (insert expletive here) who has done a lot to discredit the movement, so well done to him.

Can't imagine why Churchill's monument was vandalised. Probably because he said that British Imperialism was 'for the good of the “primitive” and “subject races”' or maybe it was this “I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.” Perhaps it was this I hate Indians…they are beastly people with a beastly religion. Maybe that's why he let 3 million Bengalis starve.

But who knows.

@Sandybval I don't disagree with any of that. But the flag itself I have no opinion about as it hangs off the cenotaph. The cenotaph itself I hold more feelings for. It should not have been climbed on or tagged.

[quote jeez20]@Masakabuzz
I have said before all these protests are going to do is set back the cause of Race Relations in this country years.

Why will it?
Because racist people will get 'more' racist?

Or are you trying to say that non racist people will become racist?
[/quote]
I think there is a definite risk that all these protests are going to do is piss people off.

I think that racist people will become more racist - the protests are giving them the perfect excuse.

Yes, I do think otherwise non racist people are going to become less tolerant. What do people expect is going to be the response when monuments to the nations war dead, and the airtime leader are defaced? The protestors are coming over as saying “F you” to society, they can’t then be surprised if society responds by saying “F you” in return.

The peaceful, and valid protests are going to be forgotten. What is going to be remembered is the thuggery. The fact many of the thugs are white agitators will be conveniently forgotten.

The protestors have given the people they are complaining about a bloody great stick to beat them with.

Not the most sensible of moves in my opinion.

Racist people don't need an excuse to be 'more racist'.

One of the purposes of the actions is surely to empower 'non racist people to become less tolerant' of racism.

They only come over as 'fuck you' to society if you believe that the status quo ie racism is fine.

It's up to you what you remember or choose to know about history. Many people on this thread are only too happy to hold Churchill up as some sort of hero and ignore his vile, elitist racism.

I do think otherwise non racist people are going to become less tolerant

Really? Because protesters have defaced some statues? Their tolerance must have been on the fragile side.

It’s perfectly possible to think that people shouldn’t deface public property while understanding why they did it.

Exactly @Bflatmajorsharp

@MasakaBuzz Serious question. What would you want people to do instead?

@motherheroic

Can't imagine why Churchill's monument was vandalised. Probably because he said that British Imperialism was 'for the good of the “primitive” and “subject races”' or maybe it was this “I do not admit, for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America, or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to those people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, or, at any rate, a more worldly wise race, to put it that way, has come in and taken their place.” Perhaps it was this I hate Indians…they are beastly people with a beastly religion. Maybe that's why he let 3 million Bengalis starve.

But who knows.

Churchill was a product of his time. You can’t judge him by modern standards. I would hazzard a guess that the majority of people of that time held the same views.

They are appalling views by modern standards. If Churchill could be magically reincarnated, and he looked around and spouted the same bigoted, racist rants everyone would be justified in crucifying him. I would be pulling on the ropes to pull him down as well.

My Grandmother once made the comment in my presence that people should be kind to me because I was a poor cripple. I have dumped people for using that term about me as an adult. I hate it. At the time however my only concern was avoiding looking at my cousin who was also there. Had we caught each other’s eye we would have cracked up.

She was using the language of her time. I don’t condemn her for it.

85-80% of the people of these Islands are White. These monuments are part of their history. I object to people destroying and defacing them.

Those monuments are also a part of the history of black folk too. Those like my West Indian black grandad who fought in the war, whose contribution was largely erased.

Those like myself whose ancestors blood provided Coulson with his philanthropic finds.

Absolutely disgusting, closing M6 for traffic. They should be charged by police. So should morons crowding on small beaches and those raving in woods. Anyone not social distancing should be fined repeatedly and anyone injuring police charged with GBH.

It's a real gift for the government. They were hemorrhaging support and dropping sharply in the polls and getting it from all angles. Now anger has turned to these illegal protests with social distancing ignored and violence.

^This, sadly completely true. And when there is a second wave of the virus, which will once again disproportionately impact upon the BAME community, the government will be able to blame on the protests rather than their own incompetence.