BLM - Worried about the anti-police sentiment in UK

[Balhammom]

I went to a local BLM protest y’day. It was passionate and very good natured (and, before anyone asks, generally socially distanced).

The overall BLM message is clearly very important. I do not want to live in a world where black communities are treated differently or feel like their lives are worth less what anyone else’s.

However, the anti (UK) police sentiment troubled me. I know this isn’t universal but lots of signs features “ACAB” and messages like “defund the police “.

I appreciate the hostility towards US police, particularly in the context of the truly appalling death of George Floyd. However, how can it be okay to treat the UK police with the same hostility?

In London, in particular, hundreds of young people are dying from black-on-black violence. A generation are at risk from drug gangs. I have no doubt many protestors could name the handful of black people who have died following encounters with Uk police. But how many could name even the last couple of black murder victims?

I know they’re not perfect, but so many police are working so hard to literally save lives from gangs and solve some of these dreadful murders. Shouldn’t we all be helping them with this? Doesn’t BLM require us to end all types of unjustified deaths that disproportionately affect the black community?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/08/bbc-denies-softening-black-lives-matter-protest-picture/

@ShinyFootball

The police use horses in situations they think might turn nasty, specifically. They use them as battering rams, threats, crowd control. They can get a good advantage with a truncheon. See 80s protests and riots for that.

If you feel sad about the horse, which I see many of you do, get onto the police about stopping using them.

How many of you have got up close to s police horse? They are absolutely massive. That's the whole point.

Agreed. They were being used in this situation to intimidate and corral protestors. Everyone knows what police horses on the street mean - it means something might kick off. There seems to be some faux innocence here as to the temperament of a police horse and the purpose they have.

TeaAndHobnob

So, the protesters were all protesting peacefully, the police horses were sent in to a peaceful crowd, one spooked for reason/reasons unknown but seemingly you are blaming the police force, the rider or both.

What's your take on the picture above then? What legitimate, "I'm at a peaceful protest protesting peacefully" reason does that man have for brandishing that large piece of wood?

• By the way, we've all seen the footage of what was happening before the horse bolted. You'd be more believable if your justification was that the troublemakers weren't there to support BLM but to simply deny that it happened at all, or that a bike was rolled into a police horse (!!!!) just makes me immediately discount anything else you might say.

By the way, we've all seen the footage of what was happening before the horse bolted. You'd be more believable if your justification was that the troublemakers weren't there to support BLM but to simply deny that it happened at all, or that a bike was rolled into a police horse (!!!!) just makes me immediately discount anything else you might say

The people denying what caused the horse to bolt are increasingly coming across as deliberately mendacious. As opposed to woefully ill informed.

ChocolatelyAsFuck
On Saturday two white police officers in London were filmed beating a disabled black man unconscious. In LONDON, right in the middle of a worldwide BLM protest. I’ve not seen the video anywhere in the mainstream media or even getting much traction on social media.

From the comments in your link -

"This happened last year."
"The guy was not beaten unconscious. And he wasn't disabled, the blue badge was for a relative."

I wish people would stop using this term 'black on black'...I mean if it's white criminals you don't say 'white on white' do you?

The average black man raised in London is suffwring from ptsd. There is a reason for that.

You only have to look at the difference in policing between the London and Bristol protests to see the difference between good policing and bad.

The police in Bristol were deliberately very hands off. In College Green I only saw about 4 officers, dressed in normal gear, smiling and chatting with people. I did eventually see 4 mounted police around the time the statue was torn down, but they were blocks away by the bombed out cathedral and again they weren't in riot kit and chatting away. Another thing I noticed (and it may just have been where I was) that most of the officers I saw were women. The protest in Bristol was peaceful. I don't think there were any injuries, civilian or police.

In London the police were heavy handed at a protest about police violence, what did they expect?

I really commend A&S's chief superintendent for his forethought on this.

It's disputable whether the police in London were heavy handed but putting that to one side, the scenes that we are talking about were outside Downing Street - this obviously creates a very unique challenge for the police. Prior to the trouble kicking off the news media describe the police as wearing normal uniform, donning soft caps rather than protective, but intimidating, head gear. There are many pictures of the police in shirt sleeves. Only when it started to escalate did the police at Downing Street don riot gear and police in riot gear (TSG???) appeared.

Central London isn't any other town or city and it's bizarre that you would expect police in London to not have to be on heightened alert.

What would you have liked to have seen -protesters storming Downing Street? As it was, they didn't stop the protesters vandalising the Cenotaph, burning the union jack that stands there,or vandalising Churchills statue on the anniversary of D Day did they? So, similar to.in Bristol really then.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

TeaAndHobnob

So, the protesters were all protesting peacefully, the police horses were sent in to a peaceful crowd, one spooked for reason/reasons unknown but seemingly you are blaming the police force, the rider or both.

What's your take on the picture above then? What legitimate, "I'm at a peaceful protest protesting peacefully" reason does that man have for brandishing that large piece of wood?

• By the way, we've all seen the footage of what was happening before the horse bolted. You'd be more believable if your justification was that the troublemakers weren't there to support BLM but to simply deny that it happened at all, or that a bike was rolled into a police horse (!!!!) just makes me immediately discount anything else you might say.

What do you think 'something might kick off' means? I'm puzzled. You exaggerated about people rioting and claimed it was a matter of interpretation (it isn't). I have never said this protest was entirely peaceful - I said 29 people were arrested for public order offences! I imagine the man with the wood was probably one of them.

The footage I posted a link to shows a bike being rolled into a police horse. I don't know why you think I made it up, it's there on video. It's also a totally different horse to the one you claimed was attacked by protestors.

Your whole approach to this has been exaggeration and lazy assumption. And yet you're still going! Impressive.

most of the officers I saw were women [in Bristol]

Two female police officers [London] in the video clip here - one white, one black;

"Footage shows a mob chasing officers down the streets of Whitehall as they were pelted with bottles, fireworks and smoke bombs at around 9pm."

metro.co.uk/2020/06/08/police-chased-whitehall-cenotaph-damaged-12-arrested-blm-protests-12819394/

That video is from last year. Why are you saying it was filmed on Saturday in the midst of a BLM protest?

If mainstream media outlets were held to the same standards and checked all their coverage scrupulously, then it might actually matter.

But they don't. There have been many times images of "events" have been published showing "something" - and pushing an agenda - only for it to emerge later the picture was taken at a different occasion - sometimes years earlier. Of course by then the story is told and everybody thinks that's what happened.

So what's sauce for the goose can damn well be sauce for the gander. I know it makes me much less interested in the polices version of events at times.

Mind you, it cuts both ways. There's quite a few pictures doing the rounds of white supremacist knuckle-draggers posing with their guns (it's the spelling that gives them away) captioned as being "taken today" when in fact some of them date back to hurricane Katrina. If the racists could read, I'm sure they'd complain.

Priti Patel spoke about this.

^Ms Patel went on: “There is no justification for it. There is no excuse for pelting flares at brave officers, throwing bikes at police horses, attempting to disrespect the cenotaph or vandalising the statue of Winston Churchill - one of the greatest protectors of our freedoms who has ever lived. “It is not for mobs to tear down statues and cause criminal damage in our streets. And it is not acceptable for thugs to racially abuse black police officers for doing their jobs.”
She went on: “To the quiet law-abiding majority who are appalled by this violence and have continued to live their lives within the rules – I hear you. “To the police who have been subject to the most dreadful abuse – you have my full backing as you act proportionately, fairly and courageously to maintain law and order. “And to the criminal minority who have subverted this cause with their thuggery, I simply say this, your behaviour is shameful, and you will face justice^

TeaAndHobnob

What do I mean by kicking off? Oh I don't know, missiles being chucked, flares being set off, mobs throwing things, vandalising monuments, attacking police officers.

What does 29 arrests prove? That the police weren't heavy handed and let an awful lot get away with more than they should have frankly.

If you want to live in anarchy then good luck. I don't. If you think it's ok to have mob rule on the streets then you can't just have it for the team you decide to be on. If that was some far right demonstration taking part would you be on here urging the police to adopt a softly softly approach? To let the protesters just do whatever they wanted?

I certainly don't want that. I don't want EDL or similar marching through London destroying whatever historical monuments they choose or trying to storm Downing Street or attack the police.

Maybe if you think they weren't riots and the police were too heavy handed perhaps you'll volunteer to go and face the next, similar non riot we have - armed with nothing more than a smile and a cheery disposition hey? After all, anything more is heavy handed according to you.

Good luck

ProfessorSlocombe

If we can't engage in good faith on here then what's the point?

You can't fight your argument with a lie, and if you try then be prepared to be called out.

@ProfessorSlocombe

Your whataboutery isn't working. Falsely claiming an event from 2019 happened last weekend isn't working. There's a cop in hospital with broken ribs, collarbone and a collapsed lung because people were chucking bikes, flares and bottles at the police. Denying this happened? Not credible.

Wilful misinterpretation and bad faith arguments from hearhooves pretty sad that you have to resort to wild accusations too try and get your point across.

I'm going to leave it there as clearly a constructive discussion isn't possible as you're responding to what you want me to have said not what I actually said.