BLM - Worried about the anti-police sentiment in UK

[Balhammom]

I went to a local BLM protest y’day. It was passionate and very good natured (and, before anyone asks, generally socially distanced).

The overall BLM message is clearly very important. I do not want to live in a world where black communities are treated differently or feel like their lives are worth less what anyone else’s.

However, the anti (UK) police sentiment troubled me. I know this isn’t universal but lots of signs features “ACAB” and messages like “defund the police “.

I appreciate the hostility towards US police, particularly in the context of the truly appalling death of George Floyd. However, how can it be okay to treat the UK police with the same hostility?

In London, in particular, hundreds of young people are dying from black-on-black violence. A generation are at risk from drug gangs. I have no doubt many protestors could name the handful of black people who have died following encounters with Uk police. But how many could name even the last couple of black murder victims?

I know they’re not perfect, but so many police are working so hard to literally save lives from gangs and solve some of these dreadful murders. Shouldn’t we all be helping them with this? Doesn’t BLM require us to end all types of unjustified deaths that disproportionately affect the black community?

With regards to the BLM protesters who resorted to violence. I fear that they will push some people more to the right. This is just the sort of thing that Combat 18 and Britain First thrive off. They will be recruiting people off the back of this alone.
If we want to change attitudes towards BLM, setting fire to the flag on the cenotaph will not help! Imagine people like Captain Tom watching this.

The police both here and in the US needs starting all over again. Here in the UK they've lost respect and confidence across the political spectrum.

yeah, course its people protesting for black rights that are forcing people to join racist groups, not them just being racist scumbags.

Did they get the piece of shit throwing bikes at horses??

Why on earth are they even using horses without giving it protection?

@user1471565182

The police both here and in the US needs starting all over again. Here in the UK they've lost respect and confidence across the political spectrum.

They really haven’t.

YANBU
Police are a needed part of any functioning society.
When police are underfunded compared to the organised crime, then you have situations like what is happening in Central America. Drug lords sending kill squads to people’s homes. Young men being given the nonchoice to join a gang/cartel or die and their whole family too. Young women being forced into sex work or trafficked from home and sold on to pimps in different cities. Selling women is just as profitable as selling drugs.
Then you have people packing up and fleeing the country. Thus the refugee crisis on the US-Mexico border the past few years. Most of the refugees were Central American’s, not Mexicans, fleeing the lawlessness created by having no effective police force.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

That protesters or the horse weren't injured when it bolted was pure luck.

What about the police officer who is seriously injured?

And I don't think anyone has claimed the horse was seriously injured have they?

You might not call that a riot. I certainly don't call it a peaceful protest. Throwing bottles and objects at the police, vandalising the Cenotaph, setting fire to the Union Jack - what place does any of that have in a peaceful protest?

Actually a pedestrian with an umbrella was knocked over as the horse turned the corner. Whether they were a protestor or a bystander I don't know and I don't know how hurt they were. I imagine having a galloping horse run into you is a bit of a shock.

What about the police officer? I'm sorry she was injured but it doesn't make it anyone's fault. I said harmed, nothing about serious injury. I don't know where that came from.

Riot has a specific legal meaning. It's not about 'what I call it'. There is a legal definition which the protests didn't come anywhere near and no one has been arrested for rioting, therefore it's not a riot. It's not a matter of interpretation, it's a serious charge.

I wonder, would we all be having this debate about structural violence without young people smashing some things up? Would a peaceful protest without flare guns, police horses charging, youths throwing bottles have garnered the same attention? It's interesting how their grievances can be dismissed because of this. There's a right and a wrong way to be angry and the right way can be safely ignored and the wrong way condemned.

@user1471565182

The police both here and in the US needs starting all over again. Here in the UK they've lost respect and confidence across the political spectrum.

The police here haven't lost respect.

My BIL was a police officer, recently retired. My sister never knew if he would be coming home at the end of the day, especially after he was confronted by a man brandishing a dorm off shotgun with only a batten for protection.

They asked if he would go back when lockdown started - neither he nor three of his friends who retired at the same time agreed.

If we aren't careful we'll end up with no one wanting to join apart maybe from people you wouldn't want there.

Last week was an anniversary of a terrorist attack on London - officers that day, and on many other occasions, ran towards danger when the rest of us ran away.

Are there racist officers? Of course, they are representative of society and the police forces need to work tirelessly to get rid of any that are but there are also many good, decent officers and we shouldn't forget that.

User147-Didn’t say that people who are protesting about blacks people’s rights makes people join racist groups.
I meant the idiots setting fire to the flags on the cenotaph and throwing things at Police horses doesn’t help the cause.
The BNP use propaganda to gain members. Why do you think we’ve had far right groups being formed such as the EDL and Britain First? They will use images of people burning flags to gain momentum, I bet it’s on their website now.
You won’t win the racism fight unless you crush these groups. It wasn’t that long ago that the BNP was on Question Time.

What about the police officer? I'm sorry she was injured but it doesn't make it anyone's fault. I said harmed, nothing about serious injury. I don't know where that came from.

The horse bolted because it was spooked by what was happening - it was on those videos. Shouting, things being thrown, on some footage there were glares or fireworks being thrown and a bike was thrown, not pushed or rolled.

The police officer was reported to have serious injuries. That was the fault of the protester/protesters that were causing the scenes that made the horse bolt.

No one deserves to be injured in the course of their duties.

Hasn’t Priti Patel banned social gatherings for the time being? Will those that resorted to violence be prosecuted do you think?

The attempts to minimize what happened are ridiculous. People were throwing projectiles, including plastic bottles at the police. Someone deliberately threw a bike at the horse. This was done with the deliberate intention of causing injury. Flares were also being used. The horse bolted, the policewoman came off and sustained broken ribs, collar bones and a collapsed lung. 27 cops have been injured. Priti Patel has described this a violent attack on the police. She is right. It's not acceptable.

The police are the target of protesters as other corrupt areas like the legal system isn't standing in the street in front of the protesters.

Hurting animals and I hope that black lives aren't hurt when police are unable to attend incidents like stabbings, car accidents, domestic violence etc in a timely manner

The police have a difficult job trying to win trust. I'm not black but after some bad experiences with the police , I am reluctant to call them for help in future. When these bad experiences happen to your family and friends multiple times because of the colour of your skin it must be much worse. Police officers do not deserve to be assaulted and UK police get more stuff right than wrong but I understand the anger which can't be taken out on the police physically.

There was footage of a woman away knocked out by the horse and photos of 2 protesters getting hit have appeared in press. I haven't heard anything about the woman there are Two videos I've seen on Twitter.

Why did only that horse bolt is a question I would like answered. Horses are used in much louder, more aggressive and bigger crowd situations, we see them regularly being subjected to missiles and they cope with it..
You also can't blame the protesters for protesting. They were throwing things and behaving erratically when a twitchy horse was ridden towards them by a presumably competent police officer who would have known the horse was twitchy. You can see it in footage of them arriving, that one horse was noticeable because it wasn't steady as the others were. It kept spinning and at one point looked like it was trying to rear
She didn't have the horse under control, people were hurt as a result of her going closer to the chaos, the horse could have been killed or seriously injured on it's way back to the stable. Why is she a hero?

She has my sympathy but I won't praise a woman for endangering life and causing injuries because she got knocked out

I have heard a lot of positive opinions about the police at a few protests from people I know. We're all are aware how hard it must be to be a copper at a protest about police brutality, But it's also not the right place to start chanting praising for the police is it.

You also can't blame the protesters for protesting. They were throwing things and behaving erratically when a twitchy horse

@Didyouaskmum

If you want to be an apologist for people who deliberately throw missiles including bikes at police? If you want to minimize the fact that a cop is in hospital with broken ribs, collar bones and a collapsed lung as a direct result of this intentional violence? And blame a 'twitchy horse? Knock yourself out.

@BovaryX

You also can't blame the protesters for protesting. They were throwing things and behaving erratically when a twitchy horse

@Didyouaskmum

If you want to be an apologist for people who deliberately throw missiles including bikes at police? If you want to minimize the fact that a cop is in hospital with broken ribs, collar bones and a collapsed lung as a direct result of this intentional violence? And blame a 'twitchy horse? Knock yourself out.

This.

But it's also not the right place to start chanting praising for the police is it.

The thread is about worrying about anti police sentiment. Why can't posters show support for the very many police who are decent and risk their lives every day basically to face situations that many other people wouldn't go near?

It's an extremely complex situation I don't see as easy to solve because of too much cause and effect to unpick.

I've seen black people pulled over in a car. They have actually done something wrong! They get all angry because they believe they were pulled because of being black. It escalates the situation.
But the reason they believe that despite doing wrong is statistically black people are stopped for random check snore than white people.

And I think the lack of trust doesn't fuel this.

Totally agree with (sunshine I think) who said all police shouldn't be held responsible for what 1 officer did.

And police shouldn't be subjected to violence for policing protests.

And agree with whoever said that instigating violence doesn't help the cause and the underlying ingrained prejudices.

So that's the circle.

It was also interesting trying to explain it to ds (15). He has asd so is very literal. I was explain that statistically black people were stopped randomly more than white by police. We don't live in a particularly diverse area but my street has a high number of BAME residents who all seem to come from same religious group. Ds couldn't understand why BAME people stopped more often as the only trouble makers he knows are white. It made and makes no sense to him. All we can hope is that as this generation grow up they also have the same mindset. They don't see colour. They see people - for what they are and who they are and what they do.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

But it's also not the right place to start chanting praising for the police is it.

The thread is about worrying about anti police sentiment. Why can't posters show support for the very many police who are decent and risk their lives every day basically to face situations that many other people wouldn't go near?

Well said👏

Without outing anyone, I have a family member who's husband used to be in the MET. They routinely used to stop and search black men "just because" and to have it shown on their stats as a badge of honour.

About 10 years ago my family member's husband was driving home from a shift and saw a black man going for a jog. He called for back up and had him searched - turns out he was a famous boxer.

The police are inherently racist and they need a shake up.

This is a link to UK BLM funding page. One of its aims, along with dismantling capitalism, is

Developing and delivering training, police monitoring and strategies for the abolition of police

uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

Defund the police in the uk is not practical they are underfunded as it is and we don't have enough of them
Police deal with thousands daily of course there will be a few rogue ones as there is in any profession or any community etc , they did not deserve to have missiles thrown at them when they were there doing a job to protect the vast majority .

You can not compare the us and uk together on this , they operate in a totally different way , have different justice systems so things like defund the police isn't the same in uk as means in us and to say the police are all racist is wrong too