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BLM - Worried about the anti-police sentiment in UK

166 replies

Balhammom · 07/06/2020 22:42

I went to a local BLM protest y’day. It was passionate and very good natured (and, before anyone asks, generally socially distanced).

The overall BLM message is clearly very important. I do not want to live in a world where black communities are treated differently or feel like their lives are worth less what anyone else’s.

However, the anti (UK) police sentiment troubled me. I know this isn’t universal but lots of signs features “ACAB” and messages like “defund the police “.

I appreciate the hostility towards US police, particularly in the context of the truly appalling death of George Floyd. However, how can it be okay to treat the UK police with the same hostility?

In London, in particular, hundreds of young people are dying from black-on-black violence. A generation are at risk from drug gangs. I have no doubt many protestors could name the handful of black people who have died following encounters with Uk police. But how many could name even the last couple of black murder victims?

I know they’re not perfect, but so many police are working so hard to literally save lives from gangs and solve some of these dreadful murders. Shouldn’t we all be helping them with this? Doesn’t BLM require us to end all types of unjustified deaths that disproportionately affect the black community?

OP posts:
strugglingwithdeciding · 08/06/2020 22:53

@how can you get rid of the police ??

BovaryX · 08/06/2020 22:58

@BonjelaIsntWorking

Let's see how the winning slogans Defund the police and Disband the police play for the Democrats in Flyover country in November......

Pepperwort · 08/06/2020 23:00

I would like to see the inherent misogyny in the police and law tackled. I don't want to see the police disbanded as women would have no recourse to help whatsoever. Disbanding the police is a ridiculous idea - they are the main, and first, method of enforcing law.

BonjelaIsntWorking · 08/06/2020 23:20

Let's see how the winning slogans Defund the police and Disband the police play for the Democrats in Flyover country in November......

I don't know if the US BLM advocates the same policy. That was the UK BLM. It is part of an anti- carceral philosophy- i.e get rid of prisons.

TellySavalashairbrush · 08/06/2020 23:23

As a parent who had to watch her daughter being verbally abused and physically assaulted by thugs with bottles and bikes on tv on Saturday, I feel sickened by some of the posts on here. She was raised not to be prejudiced against others, whatever their race or religion . She loves being a police officer and helping to keep others safe. Not all police are racists bigots who are power mad. Yet she is regularly accused of being racist when she has to arrest someone who is not white British. Yes, of course there are corrupt officers and that’s unacceptable but for heaven’s sake stop generalising. Try being called all the names under the sun, being spat at, told you should be raped/beaten/fucked up, almost everyday for less than £30k a year just for doing your job and then you can judge.

Wbeezer · 08/06/2020 23:50

An earlier poster said that stop and search had been proven not to work in reducing knife crime, it worked in Glasgow, former murder capital of Europe, BUT only as part of a well funded Violence Reduction Programme(which i believe was copied from Chicago). Knife crime was treated as a public health issue and hospitals, schools, the police, youth services, employment services all worked together properly funded. Stop and search was needed to identify potential perpetrators and victims. The reintriduction of stop and search in London will never work unless its part of a well funded broad in scope plan.
I too have watched the BLM marches and thought but what about all the young black people killed by other young black people, it really upsets me that it just seems to be something everyone has got used to.

flirtygirl · 08/06/2020 23:59

What about all the young white people killed by other young white people.

HistoryKitty · 09/06/2020 00:01

Defund the Police? Sure, I'm totally up for living in a 24hr, 365 days a year Purge style society. Maybe we can start our own version of the Hunger Games while we're at it? Hmm

DeeCeeCherry · 09/06/2020 00:01

So OP UK police killed "only a handful". So that's fine, is it?
There's a list longer than this one. & I see you've dropped the usual racist trope "blacks kill each other too" (aka they deserve it) line. Bingo.

Now I do wonder🙄 if black people don't trust the police because there doesn't seem to be a rush to get rid of bad officers who handle black people very harshly, to the point of serious injury or death. & the so called "good officers" that have consistently been just fine with covering up for racist colleagues and/or turning a blind eye.

Quite surprised anyone thinks seeing black people executed on the spot hence not afforded the due process of law, isn't triggering for us whether it takes place in UK, or USA. Not to mention many of us have family in USA & vice versa. It's a 'The final straw' moment right now. So we're not really invested in a cherry picking game around UK vs USA police.

There are people who come to protests for a bit of wide-eyed breathless excitement and some kind of thrill apparently. Then come away and land in forums thinking of ways to say 'Im Not Racist But...' without directly saying 'Im Not Racist But...'.

But then again others I think the nearest they got to a protest in reality was squinting thru screen at TV & internet footage.

BLM - Worried about the anti-police sentiment in UK
Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/06/2020 00:21

@HistoryKitty

Defund the Police? Sure, I'm totally up for living in a 24hr, 365 days a year Purge style society. Maybe we can start our own version of the Hunger Games while we're at it? Hmm
Maybe we'll get a UK version of the NRA too? Maybe 2nd amendment rights to protect ourselves in the Wild West that some clearly can't wait to usher in.
Didyouaskmum · 09/06/2020 00:57

I was referring to the comment about chanting that went on at protests @Hearhoovesthinkzebras

@BovaryX

If you want to minimize the fact that a cop is in hospital with broken ribs, collar bones and a collapsed lung as a direct result of this intentional violence
You're accusing the horse of intentional violence?. Or the Traffic Light? Protesters did not use direct violence against a Policewoman causing those injuries. They did use direct violence against other officers.
If you want to keep using a womans injuries as if they are a prop to support false accusations you make. Knock yourself out. But don't claim it's support for police when it isn't.

That horse could have killed and injured other Police, it is not supposed to bolt even when things are thrown at it. It did bolt and it nearly killed a Policewoman riding it and it injured people. If they do nothing, it will happen again.

How the fuck does that make me an apologist for people throwing missiles and bikes at Police horses?

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/06/2020 01:03

That horse could have killed and injured other Police, it is not supposed to bolt even when things are thrown at it.

Maybe because it's a living creature and not a robot?

Maybe something spooked it - like a firework or a bike being hurled through the air?

Maybe, the protesters recklessly endangered the police and the public by creating a scene that caused the horse to bolt?

Maybe the horse got hit by flying debris and all training flew out of the window and it's instincts took over?

Why are you refusing to accept that the protesters at the scene were throwing projectiles?

ShinyFootball · 09/06/2020 01:13

The vast majority of people marching will not be members of BLM and I agree their aims are a bit odd when you read down.

People are marching because they are angry and have had enough.

Yes there are always people who come for a ruck. Did you see the size of the crowds? Thousands. A tiny proportion caused trouble. No, that was not a riot by a long chalk.

So many posts I want to take issue with but tried. So here's just a couple.

'It’s a known fact that gang culture is a problem in London, including young black men. Stop and search is controversial, and I understand that black men don’t want to be searched. Who would? But if someone went on to stab someone, and wasn’t searched, the police would still be criticised for not searching.'

What about all the other gangs? There is loads of dodgy stuff going on in other groups. Black people are targeted by the colour of their skin. Nice car? Drug dealer. Stopped. White person in a nice car? Not stopped. This causes resentment. Of course it does.

'An earlier poster said that stop and search had been proven not to work in reducing knife crime, it worked in Glasgow, former murder capital of Europe, BUT only as part of a well funded Violence Reduction Programme(which i believe was copied from Chicago)'

Did this initiative in Glasgow mainly focus on the black people there? Guessing not. If it's even handed it's a different argument.

Black men are twice as likely to die at the hands of the police than white men. Reports have said that excessive force features in these incidents due to sterotypes about black men being unstable and violent.

The met, my police, have shit form, at least when it comes to certain groups. They have lied about circs, more than once. They have covered up. They have acted in ways that are totally immoral. They have shared info with the media when they shouldn't.

Do you want a list?

We can start with Ian Tomlinson, go through jean Charles menezes, past John warboys, consider the failings of the sapphire unit, consider the disproportinate deaths of black men who come into contact with them Vs white, we can swing by the women in green activism who were misled for years by undercover officers, maybe have a little look at Stephen Lawrence and how for years the police put the family under surveillance rather than investigating the murder.... It really troubles me this attitude of the authorities must be right. Because this force has been shown repeatedly to be very much less than perfect. Very much indeed.

When you see the police at a protest cover their faces and take their ID numbers off. You know things are not good. That was the situation with the protest where Ian Tomlinson died. And they lied and lied and lied until a video came out.

I am a white, middle class, privately educated woman. I have had a VERY mixed experience with the police. I don't trust them at all. And I am of a group that they should treat relatively well. Fuck knows how bad it is for others.

ChocolatelyAsFuck · 09/06/2020 01:14

On Saturday two white police officers in London were filmed beating a disabled black man unconscious (including wrestling him to the crowd in a chokehold), for refusing to move his car out of area only blue badge holders are allowed to park in, even though he had a blue badge on display.

At one point an black lady tries to intervene and the police officer kicks her and sits on her.

In LONDON, right in the middle of a worldwide BLM protest.

I’ve not seen the video anywhere in the mainstream media or even getting much traction on social media.

ShinyFootball · 09/06/2020 01:17

The police use horses in situations they think might turn nasty, specifically. They use them as battering rams, threats, crowd control. They can get a good advantage with a truncheon. See 80s protests and riots for that.

If you feel sad about the horse, which I see many of you do, get onto the police about stopping using them.

How many of you have got up close to s police horse? They are absolutely massive. That's the whole point.

ShinyFootball · 09/06/2020 01:18

Chocolatey do you have a link?

ShinyFootball · 09/06/2020 01:19

Sorry just realised how long my post was!

ChocolatelyAsFuck · 09/06/2020 01:22

twitter.com/mcash/status/1269226692805120000

ShinyFootball · 09/06/2020 01:38

It says that was not recent.

There's a struggle. These things are never pleasant to watch.

I don't know the ins and outs. But the police officer punching him in the side and those big big cuts does not look like something they should be doing to me.

Black men are twice as likely to die in contact with the police in the UK as white men. That is a stark fact.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/06/2020 01:58

[quote ChocolatelyAsFuck]twitter.com/mcash/status/1269226692805120000[/quote]
That video is from last year. Why are you saying it was filmed on Saturday in the midst of a BLM protest?

BonjelaIsntWorking · 09/06/2020 02:21

The vast majority of people marching will not be members of BLM

How can one be a "member of BLM"? Is it a registered charity? I thought it was just a loose grouping of various activist groups rather than anything one can join.

I posted this link before. There is no information about who is behind this. There is a contact link but all it brings up is a box where you can insert your name and email details with no information on who will get that information.

uk.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

ChocolatelyAsFuck · 09/06/2020 02:24

It says that was not recent

Where did you read that? I wasn’t aware of that.

It really makes no difference when it happened.

BLM is a slogan, most protestors are individuals who believe in anti-racism, not members of any organisation.

BonjelaIsntWorking · 09/06/2020 02:55

Where did you read that? I wasn’t aware of that

It's on the link you posted. It happened in July 2019- the date is mentioned several times.

Hearhoovesthinkzebras · 09/06/2020 03:30

@ChocolatelyAsFuck

It says that was not recent

Where did you read that? I wasn’t aware of that.

It really makes no difference when it happened.

BLM is a slogan, most protestors are individuals who believe in anti-racism, not members of any organisation.

It matters in as much as you circulated it claiming that it happened on Saturday in the middle of the BLM protest.
BovaryX · 09/06/2020 08:55

Good point @Hearhoovesthinkzebras. Denying people throwing bottles, bikes and flare at the cops are responsible for the injuries their violence has caused is not a defensible position. Priti Patel gave a great speech yesterday on this. Meanwhile, it transpires the BBC edited a picture of a guy wielding a large piece of wood during the demonstrations out of its coverage. It was forced to replace the unedited version only after the original was exposed.

A picture on the BBC London website originally showed a line of police officers holding back a surging crowd with the caption: “The disturbances took place outside of Downing Street after a largely peaceful protest”.However the original image uncovered by social media users showed that it had been edited down to cut out a masked man waving a large piece of wood at the officers. After receiving complaints, the cropped picture was later changed.“ The BBC have now admitted their chicanery by replacing the image with the uncropped original,” Mr Sutton said