You're white you haven't experienced racism 4

[PatricksRum]

Continued.

Don’t @ me please Op.

If you won’t engage with me on here properly don’t bother tagging me.

I see you called for zebra to be shunned too.

I guess she touched a nerve too.

I have to say this thread, and the previous threads, have made me look at things differently. I never considered how black people feel on a daily basis - how they worry about how they will be treated, will they be pulled over etc, all because of their skin colour. It's shocking that in 2020 they still have these concerns. This thread has opened my eyes more.
So shocking. And it's not just about the threat. But we also have to consider how much in the minority we will be *

On saying that, if I am going be be more vocal than before about speaking out about racism and injustice, I want to be fair about it.*
That's great. That's what I mean by using your white privilege for the better. Not saying you are white. Just in general.

That's why I want to say that, imo, OP and a few posters have been unfair on some posters like Dreep, Zebra and Earrings. They were goaded quite a lot when trying to make points. I don't believe they were trying to deny racism against black people. Rather, they were trying to educate the OP about others who experience racism. Sadly, racism isn't unique to black people. That's not to say everyone experiences racism to the same degree.
Respectfully, in response to zebra I won't accept that at all.
Even my worst enemy could see that she doesn't care for BLM. If you read each thread you'll clearly see that.*

Last night the OP tried to get Dreep to leave the thread and encouraged others to not respond to her. She is now trying to encourage posters to not respond to Zebra.*
It wasn't last night but yes I did, that's my right. I didn't want to be prodded anymore. My decision not to respond wasn't respected.
That's right, I encourage people not to respond to her. Her intention isn't to discuss.

posters don't like what someone says, they can ignore them and read the next post. It's ironic that on a post where people should be learning about tolerance to others the OP is exhibiting intolerance to a few posters and trying to "gang up" on a poster who disagrees with them.
Yet so many people have come on this thread, you included, to say what you don't like.*

This thread should be educational to everyone, including the OP.*
I've learnt that my original point is right.

I learned more about the racism black people face.
I wish the OP had learned about the racism that white people can face but I doubt she has as she is adamant it can't happen.
Im partly white. They don't experience racism but racial prejudice hence the title.
*
That is sad. A person who has experienced racism on such a frequent basis should be empathetic towards others who've experienced it.*
Oh I am. But not on this thread, not today. It's our time. BLM

Instead, it's denied or ignored.
Denied, no.
Ignored, yes.

Many posters have made a valuable contribution, highlighting their own experiences etc. I said on the previous thread that I believe people who have experienced racism should not have that invalidated just because they are white.
They haven't experienced it. They have experienced racial prejudice. I'm not invalidating that, I'm ignoring it.

Unfortunately, their experiences are still being invalidated because they aren't on the same scale or to the same degree as racism towards black people. That's wrong and unfair.
It isn't wrong or unfair.
Another thread, another time.
Start your own thread I'm sure they will offer sympathy.

Racism is wrong, on every level.
Agreed.

Yes, I get the point that a black person stands out because of the colour of their skin while a Traveller wouldn't, as they are white. The OP asking how an Irish Traveller can be picked out in a line up of white people is a horrible comment and, imo, dismissive of the racism they experience.
It's not dismissive. It's to help acknowledge that they, too, experience white privilege.*

Black lives do matter. They totally do.*
YES.

But
Here's where you ruined it

so do many other lives matter,
irrespective of colour.
Yes they do. Not on this thread, not now.

I know the OP doesn't want other lives that matter to be discussed on this thread but asking people to stand with BLM while ignoring others who suffer from racism, or bullying posters on threads, dilutes the message, and is, imo, wrong.
It's not diluting the message, it's strengthening it.
I haven't bullied anyone.

How can you post that in good conscience?

Because it's true.

You should be embarrassed to be a part of it.

It's my right to ignore her.

You didn't ignore her though.

What you ignored, were her feelings & her description of her views.

But you most certainly didn't ignore her.

You berated her, addressed her nastily, challenged her right to hold beliefs other than yours, and invited others to ignore her, and repeatedly told her to 'leave your thread'.

That's entirely different. Of course you can choose not to respond to someone. You didn't though.

You ignored her points & feelings but harassed her at the same time.

I repeat: it's the single most shameful thing I've seen on MN & it does upset me that MNHQ did nothing to stop that mistreatment of @Dreep

The ongoing accusations of derailing are unfair, IMO.
What are you doing?

Im still mildly amused by the poster that said that Patrick hadn't been angry for the last hour..................................
How do you feel about the unlawful murder of George?

Look at how some posters have gone out of their way to declare Dreep as "The good black woman" and OP as "The bad black woman".

Who did this??

That's your narrative only.

I found Dreep's posts well-written & poignant. That's not me saying she is 'good' or OP 'bad'.

I don't know either. In MN threads daily people agree or disagree with posters and their posts all the time.

Cop on

I reported her and those posts were deleted straight away and I received an email agreeing this behaviour was against MN rules.
A lot of her posts were deleted too

but I must leave you to it. I'm going to hide the thread
Finally.

@Wishingstarr
Where the hell have you been?
I totally agree with your post.
You learn a lot by listening without speaking.

@callmeadoctor has posted a link saying racism isn't a problem.
There we have it. Finally, the intention is exposed.
Insert r word

[quote BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup]**@Chulainn* you still don't get it. These threads are about the racism black people* suffer. If you wish to start threads about Irish travellers or some other group then you are free to do so on MN.[/quote]
I know it's about racism that black people suffer. I get it, and I always did.

I pulled the OP up on that comment about Irish Travellers as it was horrible. I'm not the only poster who has remarked on it. However, the OP has repeatedly said white people can't experience racism, while many have given examples to disprove this. Why should the OPs inaccurate comments not be challenged? Why are white people been instructed to educate themselves - shouldn't it work both ways? White people suffering from racism doesn't detract from the appalling racism black people suffer from on a daily basis. At this moment in time, black lives matter. However, as many have pointed out, the title of the post specifies white people don't experience racism. I know the OP stands by that title, as do others and that's fine but they shouldn't down people who disagree.

Surely, everyone should be coming together in the realisation that racism is very prevalent and needs to be stopped. It's not unique to one group, although not every group suffers as badly as black people and AME do. I will do more in the future to combat black racism and I will teach my children to do more also. However I won't ignore other groups who suffer from racism while I do that. I will stand up for them too.

How have I hurt you OP?
It doesn't matter. It isn't about how you've hurt me.
It's about black lives and how we feel about our oppression.

I have found this thread powerful, helpful and enlightening. OP you are posting constantly maybe take a break.....

It's this constant suggestion that the OP is aggressive and the automatic defensiveness of many posters.

Earrings I think we do indeed just experience OP's posts differently.
I warm to her. I like her. I think I get what she is trying to do.

People do have a right to respond and say YABU and say why they think that but OP doesn't then have an obligation to give carefully reasoned responses to all the posts in a fast moving thread.

She has dealt with some arguments with a shorthand restatement of her position that people might find dismissive but I find it understandable as she is essentially repeating herself over and over as new people arrive and make the same points (usually starting with what about)

Her main aim is to counter All Lives Matter arguments and focus on Black Lives Matter.
To get people to understand that isolated incidents of prejudice experienced by white people are not equivalent to systemic racism experienced by black people. In that she has succeeded pretty well
She is trying to get people to understand that all white people have white privilege. Even those who ARE discriminated against eg due to their ethnic origin, culture or religion it is not due to the colour of their skin. Whilst it is a disadvantage to be poor it is worse to be poor and black. Or Muslim and black. Or disabled and black. Or indeed Welsh and black. If there were any black travellers in my opinion they would be worse off than white travellers but last time I said that I got slated. It makes logical sense to me. This is intersectionality. It's not a new concept. This point sadly has been less accepted and appears to be very controversial because people don't like to admit they are privileged.

*Don’t @ me please Op.
*So it's only you who can do that?

*If you won’t engage with me on here properly don’t bother tagging me.

I see you called for zebra to be shunned too.

*Yes, amongst others.

I guess she touched a nerve too.
I wish she had. At least we would have centred it on the topic

*You didn't ignore her though.

What you ignored, were her feelings & her description of her views.

But you most certainly didn't ignore her. *

That is ignoring her.

*You berated her, addressed her nastily, challenged her right to hold beliefs other than yours, and invited others to ignore her, and repeatedly told her to 'leave your thread'.

That's entirely different. Of course you can choose not to respond to someone. You didn't though.

You ignored her points & feelings but harassed her at the same time.*
You've said this. What's your Point? I won't apologise so what's your point?*

I repeat: it's the single most shameful thing I've seen on MN & it does upset me that MNHQ did nothing to stop that mistreatment of @Dreep*
They deleted my comments, you said so yourself.
You've seen nothing more shameful, especially on this thread?
People saying racism isn't a problem.
People saying I shouldn't wear my own attire but should wear English attire in the UK.
People saying fuck off to me.
People telling me I'm Asian.
That's quite something.

Well Im off to bed, might have another sneaky glass of wine........... I hope that you get some answers Op (and maybe some sleep)

@YgritteSnow

Again, I agree 💯

I really hate the narrative that there are cliques that are 'pro' or 'anti' OP, by the way.

There are posters here who disagree with me totally eg regarding my view of OP's posting style or her treatment of Dreep.

However, I have acknowledged those posters (eg @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee) when they have made points that I agree with or have caused me to think or reflect (Woke has done this as did @namechangegarden - I think I've the name right! )

It's NOT either / or for many of us.

One thing I would disagree with Woke about is that some of us whipped up a frenzy about Dreep's posts and her treatment.

No. Some of us, including Ygritte, Hooves, returned again and again to how OP treated her (summed up clearly by Ygritte) because we felt it should not be accepted, and shouldn't stand. It's shocking that MNHQ did not feel the same.

@YgritteSnow I'll be following you soon 😊 there are some excellent threads on the broader issue that I'm following.

*I'm genuinely loosing track.

How many races are there? Are we now down to black or white, identify as one? I'm really not trying to be inflammatory.

Black people have historically faced awful discrimination and disadvantage and which is still present today, everything from how well they are represented in universities, business, media, how well they achieve financially, I could go on, I can't imagine how frustrating it is to live knowing that you face predudice on a regular basis. I get it, I sympathize, I don't know how to fix the injustices that began this.*
*

What about Asian people, Hispanic people, can they be subject to racism, are they black, are they white? Is it ok to make a sweeping generalized comment about french people? Can black people ever be racist against other black people?*
They aren't black or white. They're aren't only two races.
No, it isn't okay to use racial prejudice.
No, a black person cannot be racist toward their own race.*

I'm really really not trying to upset anyone, I want to be educated. I have always tried to see and treat people as individuals who are more than their race (or any other categories you might wish to put them in) we're all the same flesh and bones beneath the skin.*
We are. It's a shame that white racist people don't see this.

White people suffering from racism doesn't detract from the appalling racism black people suffer from on a daily basis.
It does when you come on a thread about BLM and derail it with so.

Surely, everyone should be coming together in the realisation that racism is very prevalent and needs to be stopped. It's not unique to one group,
No one said it was.

although not every group suffers as badly as black people and AME do. I will do more in the future to combat black racism and I will teach my children to do more also.

However I won't ignore other groups who suffer from racism while I do that. I will stand up for them too.
No one asked you to.

Well Im off to bed, might have another sneaky glass of wine........... I hope that you get some answers Op (and maybe some sleep)
Have reported all your posts.

Woke, there has been systemic racism in England towards the Irish. I experienced it, my father experienced it, many Irish experience it. I was threatened with violence, I was scared, I had all the "jokes" of being thick, pigs in my house, being a drunk.... The Irish were oppressed in their own country for hundreds of years, threatened, killed etc. I understand there is systemic racism towards black people. It is wrong. However, systemic racism isn't exclusive to black people and it's wrong to deny other groups can experience systemic racism, if this thread is solely about systemic racism.

If this thread is solely about George Floyd then his name should be in the title and I would never have posted about the Irish, Travellers etc. What happened to George Floyd cannot be allowed happen again. Racism against black people needs to end.

Eh?