You're white you haven't experienced racism 4

[PatricksRum]

Continued.

I'm off to pump some milk for boob-addicted almost two year old dd.
I'll come back later or in the morning.
Thanks to the genuine posters who have asked questions and listened and stepped up.

@PatricksRum

Well Im off to bed, might have another sneaky glass of wine........... I hope that you get some answers Op (and maybe some sleep) Have reported all your posts.

Erhmmmmm ok.......

*Avrana
*

1. I didn't say she was singling me out 🤷🏻‍♀️

1. I haven't said anything about the Irish Traveller situation in about 24 hours

1. I return to the point about Dreep as I think it's shameful, shocking & prejudicial by OP & should be called out

1. OP is responding to me? I think not. I'm responding to her. She says something I find unacceptable, I call her out.

1. You don't like it? Sorry not sorry Threads work like this. People post stuff, other people comment. You don't get to tell other posters what they can respond to. I have only posted in response to OP.

1. I, too, am interested in the wider debate on BAME issues. OP spends very little time on that, preferring to attack other groups, and posters, and through her constant twisting of posts, changing what she says, derailing the thread from this.

1. She asked / instructed people to leave the thread and told others not to engage with them. I've never, ever seen that before. Dreep wrote about how she felt about this & OP couldn't even acknowledge this.

1. While I did stop posting this morning, and will again soon, I make no apology for challenging OP's mistruths, prejudice and maltreatment of others in a serious way. It's ironic that you think someone standing up to those things should be silenced!

No, a black person cannot be racist toward their own race.*

I asked that bit because on a video today a man claimed that the genocide in Rwanda was racially motivated, one black race thinking they were better than the other. What was it? Religious? Ethnic? Are different ethnic groups different to races?
I have googled, it tells me that there were traditionally, broadly speaking 5 races, but to use the Irish traveller example used by others, they are an ethnic group, who face predudice and historical disadvantage, crimes against them can be recorded as race crimes, so I don't understand why that's not racism.

Again I'm not trying to cause offence, I want to be educated, I appreciate all the time you are giving to this thread.

I think we live in societies where a lot of suffering, poverty and discrimination is ignored generally. So when attention is given so clearly to this one group when we are as a nation examining the claims of BLM, there are a lot of other people frustrated with how ignored they continue to be. That frustration should be focused on the powers that be that allow so much inequality to continue. Instead the anger is directed toward people like the OP. She is NOT saying that other people don't also experience forms of oppression and discrimination but black people are most definitely not the people who have created our power structures and hold the vast majority of wealth and investments in this nation.

Chulainn but what if a person was Irish and black? Would they not be worse off than a white Irish person?

That's all OP is saying. Yes Irish people in the UK experience systematic discrimination on the grounds of their ethnic background that is not denied but if they were also black that would have made it even worse. Thus even though they are discriminated against they still have white privilege compared to a black Irish person.

Woke

Thanks - that's a fair post & even if I don't agree, I respect your point of view.

I can't agree with the points on Irish Travellers tho. I have seen so clearly how they've been treated. I think many here won't have - while there are Traveller communities in the UK, firstly, the UK is far bigger so is not at all as obvious and secondly, the Travelling community in the UK are different again to the Irish Travelling community, notwithstanding that many travel to the UK.

However, I appreciate it seems like I am derailing the thread if I go into detail on this, so I'll leave it there.

If anyone is interested, I posted specific details of inequality of health, educational outcomes & life expectancy that Travellers face, on the last thread. They compare far less well than that of black people, living in Western Europe. Something to be considered when people talk loosely of 'privilege'.

I am unfamiliar with the UK but in the USA Jeff Bezos (Amazon), Bill Gates (Microsoft) and Warren Buffett (Berkshire Hathaway) own more than the bottom 50% of the nation. You will notice none of them are black.

Well OP, I realise it's late & I feel like I must have been on a different thread.

I saw none of this:

People saying racism isn't a problem.
People saying I shouldn't wear my own attire but should wear English attire in the UK.
People saying fuck off to me.
People telling me I'm Asian.

Did people really say these exact things or are you paraphrasing?

Woke, I believe a black Irish person would be worse off than a white Irish person, and that's wrong. However, my understanding from this thread is that people believe that only black people suffer from systemic racism. My point about the Irish was to say that they have also suffered from systemic racism, white or black.

*Well OP, I realise it's late & I feel like I must have been on a different thread.

I saw none of this:

People saying racism isn't a problem.
People saying I shouldn't wear my own attire but should wear English attire in the UK.
People saying fuck off to me.
People telling me I'm Asian.

Did people really say these exact things or are you paraphrasing?*

They said these exact things.
Did you not see coaches post?
Bearded lady told me I can't wear my own attire in the UK
Doctor has literally just posted a link saying racism isn't a problem.

Pp will back me up that coach said I'm Asian and repeatedly told me to fuck and then blamed it on me because I said I grew up in a Muslim household.

As much as Irish Travelers are discriminated against (which there are). An Irish traveler could change their culture and their accent, wear different clothes and most people would not identify their background. Whatever they do to "play the game" of the dominant society black people cannot disguise the fact they are black. They can move to the top of the social system and their skin color would still be essential to their identity and to others perception of them. If anyone were to say "I don't see skin colour" that would be racist and a lie. If a Irish traveler was sitting in a car they would be unlikely to be pulled over. While a black person could still be seen as suspicious and not belonging not matter what their qualifications and social standing.

If you post something that doesn't go along with this nonsense you will be banned thread deleted etc
Oh really? I'll await on the deletions and vans of zebra and earrings. I wasn't aware of this new policy.

I've seen people asking others to leave threads before and certainly telling them to shut up. I didn't find it so terribly shocking. It is bad etiquette and I don't encourage it but it's not so Pearl clutchingly shocking in AIBU

Teachers posting flowers on 'teacher bashing' threads
Feminists posting cake recipes in response to persistent misogyny
These are just more subtle ways of suggesting people don't engage
OPs only mistake (as ever) was being too direct

If you think a post is bullying you report it. You do not pile on calling the person out in the thread. You just report and you might post that you've reported and that's it.
I don't recall Dreep pleading for you all to fight her corner and to still be going on about it now I find bizarre. You reported it. It was dealt with by the offending posts being deleted. The OP is not required to don the sackcloth and ashes.

I did not see Hooves apologise for the deleted Holocaust denier accusation or anyone suggesting that she should.

I asked that bit because on a video today a man claimed that the genocide in Rwanda was racially motivated, one black race thinking they were better than the other. What was it? Religious? Ethnic? Are different ethnic groups different to races?
Black people can treat black people poorly.
It isn't racism though and is usually a symptom of oppression.
*
I have googled, it tells me that there were traditionally, broadly speaking 5 races, but to use the Irish traveller example used by others, they are an ethnic group, who face predudice and historical disadvantage, crimes against them can be recorded as race crimes, so I don't understand why that's not racism.*
Because they aren't abused due to skin colour but do to ethnicity or practices. Still wrong, of course.*

Again I'm not trying to cause offence, I want to be educated, I appreciate all the time you are giving to this thread.*

That's very unfair on Coach. She did make a mistake. She acknowledged that iirc?

There have been many many more posts - I mean we are at 3,000 plus now, across 4 threads, and I have not seen those views represented across those, and I've read all the threads.

You are deliberately pulling out and twisting select posts, but what about the c2950 posts that did not do this?

6. I, too, am interested in the wider debate on BAME issues. OP spends very little time on that
Start a thread about any other ethnic group and I'll happily join/ debate.

So when attention is given so clearly to this one group when we are as a nation examining the claims of BLM, there are a lot of other people frustrated with how ignored they continue to be. That frustration should be focused on the powers that be that allow so much inequality to continue.
Totally agree. I've said a few times I have no problem with those disagreeing with me but ignore that or deal with it quietly whilst we focus on *black lives

Instead the anger is directed toward people like the OP. She is NOT saying that other people don't also experience forms of oppression and discrimination but black people are most definitely not the people who have created our power structures and hold the vast majority of wealth and investments in this nation.*
I'd never say other people don't experience it. In fact I said so in the beginning. White people experience racial prejudice

Woke, I believe a black Irish person would be worse off than a white Irish person, and that's wrong.
So can you accept that to be black alone, never mind black with anything else is the most oppressed?

As much as Irish Travelers are discriminated against (which there are). An Irish traveler could change their culture and their accent, wear different clothes and most people would not identify their background. Whatever they do to "play the game" of the dominant society black people cannot disguise the fact they are black. They can move to the top of the social system and their skin color would still be essential to their identity and to others perception of them. If anyone were to say "I don't see skin colour" that would be racist and a lie. If a Irish traveler was sitting in a car they would be unlikely to be pulled over. While a black person could still be seen as suspicious and not belonging not matter what their qualifications and social standing.
Thank you.
I've said this so many times.

1. I, too, am interested in the wider debate on BAME issues. OP spends very little time on that

Start a thread about any other ethnic group and I'll happily join/ debate.

When I said this, I am referring to the 'Black' part of BAME as well - you've said so little on this, bar maybe 4 or 5 generalised posts. If anyone asks you to elaborate you respond, that it's not your place to tell us what's needed / what the issues are etc.

@Chulainn
How can you identify a white traveller from a group of white faces?

So white people can't experience racism specifically because of their skin colour? That's specific to black people of African origin?

But all other races /ethnicities experience racial prejudice? I understand when you say a white Irish traveller could hide their ethnicity (I don't think they should have to) but Asian people can't hide their race, do they experience racism or racial prejudice?

@Wishingstarr

As much as Irish Travelers are discriminated against (which there are). An Irish traveler could change their culture and their accent, wear different clothes and most people would not identify their background. Whatever they do to "play the game" of the dominant society black people cannot disguise the fact they are black. They can move to the top of the social system and their skin color would still be essential to their identity and to others perception of them. If anyone were to say "I don't see skin colour" that would be racist and a lie. If a Irish traveler was sitting in a car they would be unlikely to be pulled over. While a black person could still be seen as suspicious and not belonging not matter what their qualifications and social standing.

While you're right on the specific issue of visibility of ethnic status (I'm not sure I'm using the right words here, sorry), it's utterly heartbreaking that you're saying "it's OK because they can pretend not to be in a minority by changing their way of life, dress and accent."

This is minimising the racism experienced by a minority group. Nobody should have to change the expression of their culture to avoid being mistreated. The op was rightly appalled that she was asked by a pp to " dress less black" (paraphrased) and this is a courtesy that should be extended to all.

If we are going to only talk about black lives on this thread, I wish all people would stop bringing up oppressed white lives and making comments that are unjust. I'm fine with only talking about black lives. It's a fucking important conversation. But please don't minimise the racism experienced by others in doing so.