You're white you haven't experienced racism 4

[PatricksRum]

Continued.

I have to say this thread, and the previous threads, have made me look at things differently. I never considered how black people feel on a daily basis - how they worry about how they will be treated, will they be pulled over etc, all because of their skin colour. It's shocking that in 2020 they still have these concerns. This thread has opened my eyes more.

On saying that, if I am going be be more vocal than before about speaking out about racism and injustice, I want to be fair about it. That's why I want to say that, imo, OP and a few posters have been unfair on some posters like Dreep, Zebra and Earrings. They were goaded quite a lot when trying to make points. I don't believe they were trying to deny racism against black people. Rather, they were trying to educate the OP about others who experience racism. Sadly, racism isn't unique to black people. That's not to say everyone experiences racism to the same degree.

Last night the OP tried to get Dreep to leave the thread and encouraged others to not respond to her. She is now trying to encourage posters to not respond to Zebra. If posters don't like what someone says, they can ignore them and read the next post. It's ironic that on a post where people should be learning about tolerance to others the OP is exhibiting intolerance to a few posters and trying to "gang up" on a poster who disagrees with them.

This thread should be educational to everyone, including the OP. I learned more about the racism black people face. I wish the OP had learned about the racism that white people can face but I doubt she has as she is adamant it can't happen. That is sad. A person who has experienced racism on such a frequent basis should be empathetic towards others who've experienced it. Instead, it's denied or ignored. Many posters have made a valuable contribution, highlighting their own experiences etc. I said on the previous thread that I believe people who have experienced racism should not have that invalidated just because they are white. Unfortunately, their experiences are still being invalidated because they aren't on the same scale or to the same degree as racism towards black people. That's wrong and unfair. Racism is wrong, on every level. Yes, I get the point that a black person stands out because of the colour of their skin while a Traveller wouldn't, as they are white. The OP asking how an Irish Traveller can be picked out in a line up of white people is a horrible comment and, imo, dismissive of the racism they experience.

Black lives do matter. They totally do. But so do many other lives matter, irrespective of colour. I know the OP doesn't want other lives that matter to be discussed on this thread but asking people to stand with BLM while ignoring others who suffer from racism, or bullying posters on threads, dilutes the message, and is, imo, wrong.

Are you prepared yet to make any comment on the hurt you've caused @Dreep*, OP?

She repeatedly told you she felt & why, and you either doubled-down on the comments you made, or ignored her.*

It's my right to ignore her.
I don't have any comment to make. I'm hurt too, by her, by you, by so many. I don't want any of you to comment on it or apologise.
We are responsible for what we say not for how people respond to it.

Oh, come on, "vicious posting style"? That's utter tripe.

Cranky and pissed off at times? Sure but she hasn't been vicious. There has certainly been haranguing going on in these threads but it hasn't been from PatricksRum.

Look at how some posters have gone out of their way to declare Dreep as "The good black woman" and OP as "The bad black woman".

Do you have any idea how nauseatingly predictable that is?

Thank you. From the thread this evening, I see that you really do have a point in starting the threads. You have challenged me and made me think, and I'm really glad that I'm not the only one. You have made some people recognise that racism is way, way more than hurtful comments about the colour of people's skin. You treat people with respect when you feel they are treating you with respect (I still feel awful that in one post I misquoted you, even though you graciously accepted my retraction) and on so, so many occasions people did not treat you with respect or try to understand your position. You are a strong person who has made a difference.

I really thank you for this post.
Don't feel awful about that honestly. It's easy to get mixed up, there's so many posts. I've done the same at least twice!
I hope you see that if someone comes on genuinely and wants to learn I won't shut them down with its not my job to educate you
Even later on when you disagreed you did it respectfully.
I have no problem with being challenged.
Another post on reddit I like her very much. If the criticism isn't what she is saying but the way she is saying it then she is doing it right.
It made me think, a lot of the posts are criticising me personally, my approach and whilst that is unnecessary and personal, if that's all they have to criticise then I'm doing something right.

Callmeadr she was challenging with you because you were straight up patronising and mocking her

be kind
Haha hasn't been angry for an hour
Get some counselling

Goady Fucker

@WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee

You're fully entitled to your opinion & I respect that.

In relation to this point

I think Patricksrum got angry with some people sometimes but not really more than was directed at her.

I just can't agree & I am surprised you feel this way.

I don't have any issue with OP's anger.

She wasn't angry with people who were angry towards her, though.

She was really nasty, ill-informed (her ongoing comments about travellers are truly awful) & absolutely refused to deal with specific points.

She said I was lying. Repeatedly. So I posted & re-posted the posts to prove I wasn't, and then she changed her points, oh no, I was now lying about something else. And so on.

I didn't direct anger at her. Dreep didn't direct anger at her (in the main, I know she was angry at the end of thread 3, but she never personally attacked OP).

OP doesn't want to accept the premise that is MN (anyone who wishes can post, following guidelines), or AIBU - Am I Being Unreasonable - a question, a proposition that invites challenge. She didn't want that.

She doesn't have to want it. But if she chooses to post, she should choose to engage meaningfully & respectfully with those who post too.

The ongoing accusations of derailing are unfair, IMO.

Posters are entitled to challenge the OP's assertions (back to thread title). That's not derailing. OP & others can't say, you must only post about this when the premise of the thread was set out in the title.

@WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you, again for your posts.
Honestly they bring a tear to my eye.
I've never known what it's like to be backed up in any sense but especially when challenging racism.
It's not that you agree with me but that you're fighting the abuse.

@callmeadoctor no one is forcing you to post on these threads.

Maybe as they are making you feel fragile you should take a break.

But OP, that photo says 'I am not trying to get OP banned or deleted'.

Your post alleged people were asking for you to be banned / deleted but this says the opposite? It doesn't back up your point at all.

In any case, I might be wrong but although I think people called the thread into question, they didn't ask for your banning at any point.

*Oh, come on, "vicious posting style"? That's utter tripe.

Cranky and pissed off at times? Sure but she hasn't been vicious. There has certainly been haranguing going on in these threads but it hasn't been from PatricksRum.

Look at how some posters have gone out of their way to declare Dreep as "The good black woman" and OP as "The bad black woman".

Do you have any idea how nauseatingly predictable that is?*

Quite right.
Martin Luther King.
Malcolm X.
We are still being killed.

*But OP, that photo says 'I am not trying to get OP banned or deleted'.

Your post alleged people were asking for you to be banned / deleted but this says the opposite? It doesn't back up your point at all.

In any case, I might be wrong but although I think people called the thread into question, they didn't ask for your banning at any point*

@Dreep responded to a post. She didn't just randomly say she didn't want me banned.

@Chulainn you still don't get it. These threads are about the racism black people suffer. If you wish to start threads about Irish travellers or some other group then you are free to do so on MN.

• Look at how some posters have gone out of their way to declare Dreep as "The good black woman" and OP as "The bad black woman".

Do you have any idea how nauseatingly predictable that is?*

Absolute clap trap. How can you post that in good conscience? Let us make this clear for newcomers to the thread. OP ordered Dreep from her thread multiple times and then requested that everyone else ignore her and refuse to engage with her. She attempted to exclude, silence and other her. She answered none of Dreep's points just sneered at and dismissed them over and over and when it was clear Dreep wasn't going she ignored her completely. I reported her and those posts were deleted straight away and I received an email agreeing this behaviour was against MN rules. Despite this none of OP's cheerleaders spoke up and it was left to others to challenge this behaviour. Those who did have been treated aggressively since with constant hints that they're racist. Honestly disgusted by your attempts to twist this challenge of out and out bullying from the OP as racism from those that spoke up.

All of this is available to be seen on the various threads. I'm embarrassed for you.

@EarringsandLipstick you've been great on this thread, you and others but I must leave you to it. I'm going to hide the thread as I simply cannot waste any more time on it and the constant lies and misrepresentations of other posters and their motives with the ever present implications of racism if you dare to speak up or disagree. I'm sure I will see you elsewhere on MN in hopefully less toxic discussion

PatricksRum blimey. I didn't realize as I am in a different time zone so missed whole threads. It's sad to feel you are in the position of Pearl and trying to talk rationally while numerous people go off on tangents. I think it's something to do with our analytical society where we like to think we are critical thinkers and just cannot accept that there is an experience outside ours. I also think Brits pride themselves on our openmindeness, so it's like there is a brick wall. And that brick wall is unconcious racism. I can't believe there is nothing I could learn, but I can't learn if I refuse to listen and take on board what you and other black people are telling me.

@Chulainn

Excellent post, well-written

I too have learned a lot from other posters. I happen to be involved, through my work, with the treatment of BAME people in 3rd level education. In Ireland, we are absolutely (in my experience) playing catch-up on these issues, as the growth of BAME communities is relatively recent (last 20 years or so).

I do have an understanding therefore (from listening to others) of the prejudice they face.

I didn't really think however, until it was pointed out to me here, of the possible additional challenges 'B' communities face, with regard to entrenched views eg that they are inherently 'aggressive', or people who wrote about how eg MH issues in white people vs black peoples are perceived and treated. I think @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee expressed that very well.

How have I hurt you OP?

Earrings But why are you still haranguing the op? 90% of her posts to you (if not more) are responses to you. She’s not singling you out, you’ve been haranguing her again and again, whether it’s travellers, forcing her to apologise to Dreep. Over and over. So you don’t agree with her? Fine, it’s not a competition. Doesn’t make you less of a person. But the rest of us DONT WANT OT HEAR IT. We want to talk about the effects of racism on society, on our children. We want to hear how people can help support. Contribute something positive!

I'm genuinely loosing track.

How many races are there? Are we now down to black or white, identify as one? I'm really not trying to be inflammatory.

Black people have historically faced awful discrimination and disadvantage and which is still present today, everything from how well they are represented in universities, business, media, how well they achieve financially, I could go on, I can't imagine how frustrating it is to live knowing that you face predudice on a regular basis. I get it, I sympathize, I don't know how to fix the injustices that began this.

What about Asian people, Hispanic people, can they be subject to racism, are they black, are they white? Is it ok to make a sweeping generalized comment about french people? Can black people ever be racist against other black people?

I'm really really not trying to upset anyone, I want to be educated. I have always tried to see and treat people as individuals who are more than their race (or any other categories you might wish to put them in) we're all the same flesh and bones beneath the skin.