You're white you haven't experienced racism 4

[PatricksRum]

Continued.

I read all your threads. I don't recall these statements, at all:

You're racist. I'm reporting this thread.
This is racist. MN delete and ban her.**

I could be wrong but I can't remember one single post asking for you to be banned.

I reported some of your posts about me (where you called me a liar, despite me proving I was not) & those where you attacked other posters eg Dreep.

In the reply I got from MNHQ they said they'd received many reports.

However I don't think the posts I reported were deleted. That's fine - it's their call.

I stepped away from thread 3 this morning but read through it later.

Your ongoing treatment of Dreep and Hooves was just abhorrent. I did honestly get w bit lost in the back & forth in some of the posts Hooves posted but driving her off the thread, and revelling in it, is another example of your nasty posting.

Some of the other posters have posted cogently, and you've said that they are saying what you meant to say. Which makes me sad, as it could have been an interesting & challenging debate but your aggression & lack of truthfulness hindered that.

@MNHQ I do understand you leaving the threads. But I am so shocked at the level of personal attack on a number of posters (not including myself, I mean others, mentioned above).

I remember this morning when Dreep & I said we were leaving, OP posted to say, good & I wish you'd take Zebra (aka Hooves 😀) with you. Just so uncalled for.

I also wonder at no usual message from @MNHQ like 'we are putting our heads around the door' etc to ask for respectful posting etc. I feel they are shit-scared of the whole thing & are jeeping, largely their heads down on it all. (I know there were some deletions, particularly in thread 3)

Thank you PatricksRum.
This thread is suv a hard read. Through meticulous family research a couple of years ago my mum found that 9 generations ago my grandmother was a black slave in the West Indies, originating from West Africa. Her name is listed (unusually, in literature from the time, explained in a moment) as Talky Amy. Not even a surname. She gave birth to a son fathered by her “owner” who was a member of the Scottish aristocracy. Her son with him managed as a young adult after his father had died somehow to gain passage to Britain where he was firmly rejected by the British (Scottish) side of his (my) family. He eventually found association with William Wilberforce who was active in London. He published pamphlets and a book (which is still available on Amazon!) and spent time in prison because of his radical abolitionist views. His portrait hangs in the London Docklands Museum. I was taken a bit by surprise as a huge lump blocked my throat as I looked into his eyes. This man was my family.
I’m a white woman in her late fifties. I was born in Streatham and grew up in Brixton in the late 60s/early 70s. My school friends were black and white, predominantly black. We all got along, I think because what we had in common was that we were all very poor, which is what prompted my question to you, about class.
I moved on, we went to the suburbs where there wasn’t a single black face and I did well at school. I’m middle class now and live in the North West where I could go a year without seeing a black person. There are many Asian people in my closest city but generally they are middle class professionals and of those who are in my friendship group they have never raised racism as an issue.
This last week has felt, strangely probably, incredibly personal. I’m sorry, I know that sounds trite. I don’t know how else to phrase it. I suppose the only way I can express it is that for twists of fate I could be walking in your shoes tomorrow.
I just don’t understand. We’re all human beings, aren’t we?
I feel very uncomfortable as I’m writing this because I don’t really know what I’m trying to say. I’m just sorry, so sorry that any human being should be made feel the way that you are feeling for your daughter. Why doesn’t everyone see that? It’s so clear.

@AKissAndASmile
That's a great post.
I don't use the word BAME in my life. These threads are the first time I have.

Or do you mean you can only accept the point if it's coming from a white person?

I do think you post very well @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee

I found your posts very interesting & I took a lot from what you said.

However, I felt the same about @Dreep

So, it's absolutely not about skin colour (and fairly obviously so on an Internet forum: unless everyone tells us, how do we know how anyone identifies? I know some posters shared that information but honestly I got pretty confused due to the volume of posters & posts, so couldn't tell you for most posters, who is what ethnicity).

It is about clarity of expression, thought & argument. I countered OP due to her vicious posting style & haranguing, illogically, of other posters.

Ah, sorry for my bold fail 🤦🏻‍♀️ I promise it looked ok before posting!

Only my second paragraph, where I quote OP, should be in bold. The rest is my own words.

Sorry.

I'm referring to my post at 23:08

I could be wrong but I can't remember one single post asking for you to be banned.
Check attached picture. The comment was deleted it seems so I can't quote it.

Your ongoing treatment of Dreep and Hooves was just abhorrent. I did honestly get w bit lost in the back & forth in some of the posts Hooves posted but driving her off the thread, and revelling in it, is another example of your nasty posting.
Nope. She actually drove another poster from the thread and that's the only reason she stopped.
I asked others to disengage with the derail.

Some of the other posters have posted cogently, and you've said that they are saying what you meant to say. Which makes me sad, as it could have been an interesting & challenging debate but your aggression & lack of truthfulness hindered that.
It hasn't. Look what's happened when there's no derail.

I remember this morning when Dreep & I said we were leaving, OP posted to say, good & I wish you'd take Zebra (aka Hooves 😀) with you. Just so uncalled for.
I did, but without the emoji.
How can you say that's uncalled for after all she has done?

I also wonder at no usual message from @MNHQ* like 'we are putting our heads around the door' etc to ask for respectful posting etc. I feel they are shit-scared of the whole thing & are jeeping, largely their heads down on it all. (I know there were some deletions, particularly in thread 3)
Despite the title there isn't that many deletions. I don't think it's necessary for them to do this.*

These discussions remind me of this show, some white people would rather derail or sabotage a discussion on racism rather than confront how uncomfortable they feel. They are missing the whole point of power relations.

Oh Christ OP

I did, but without the emoji.

I used the emoji as I was shortening a PP's username (@Hearhoovesthinkzebras ) to Hooves whereas you'd used Zebra so I was laughing (😂) at them being one & the same & clarifying 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

@PatricksRum Thank you. From the thread this evening, I see that you really do have a point in starting the threads. You have challenged me and made me think, and I'm really glad that I'm not the only one. You have made some people recognise that racism is way, way more than hurtful comments about the colour of people's skin. You treat people with respect when you feel they are treating you with respect (I still feel awful that in one post I misquoted you, even though you graciously accepted my retraction) and on so, so many occasions people did not treat you with respect or try to understand your position. You are a strong person who has made a difference.

@Auntieelsie
That is such a sad tale. I'm so sorry. That must have been so hard to find out.
I have to say, as a Caribbean, one thing I envy of some other black people is their ability so successfully trace their ancestry and their original surnames.

Talky Amy, that is just so awful

Please don't apologise. You aren't. They don't deserve that from you.

Of course it's personal to you. Don't apologise. I can't imagine finding out like that.

Thanks for posting and sharing your story. It's exactly what this thread is about.

I don't think you attached a picture OP?

@Wishingstarr That is the video I posted at the beginning of thread 3 and I've referenced it quite a bit here.
It's so powerful and it's why I started this thread without apologising to white people. I've done that all my life.
^Sorry but please don't call me that
Sorry but you are privileged
Sorry but we are oppressed^
No more. Not on this thread.

Are you prepared yet to make any comment on the hurt you've caused @Dreep, OP?

She repeatedly told you she felt & why, and you either doubled-down on the comments you made, or ignored her.

*how she felt

I think Patricksrum got angry with some people sometimes but not really more than was directed at her. We none of us are perfect all the time and she has kept going round the clock through 4 threads now.

I always thought I would never ask someone to leave a thread as everyone has a right to post but actually I did want to ask Hearhooves to leave because she was just so insistent on being right at all costs and was going on a crazy derail and slipping into personal abuse towards OP which was rightly deleted. If OP was rude to her I cannot blame her in the least.

I did not feel the same way about Dreep. It looked to me like anything negative that was said to her by OP was jumped on and whipped up a bit by other posters. Of course she may not agree.

People have said I was more supportive of OP than Dreep. Well I agreed with OP's premise more than Dreeps that's all. I've nothing at all against her personally.

Apologies @EarringsandLipstick
Here is the photo