To wonder why schools are saying they’re not allowed to do live lessons

[Plinkplonkplank]

Because they’ve just started doing them at my ds’s state secondary. We had to fill in an online permission form. So it is possible after all.

I'm surprised there is such a poor uptake of like W lessons. We had some at first who were shy but O now have pretty much 100% attendance now they are familiar with schedule, logins, routine etc. I am really pleased they are in the waiting room on time. During the lesson I have breakout rooms so they can do group work so gets more like the classroom every day and they are much more interactive and willing to speak now.
Yes it was strange but children adapt and if he have to do this till December then we definitely could. I want to be back so they can socialise, but the learning is getting better every day.

My home broadband connection has prevented me from uploading a narrated PP for much of the day.

I still haven’t managed.

@LolaSmiles do you reckon I can fix it by having a more “can do” attitude?

I'm not sure how often I can say that i know live lessons don't work for all.

I object to being told that they impossible/counterproductive/bot as good as pre recorded lessons/too exhausting/break fire regulations/go against human rights/break privacy laws
when I am seeing my children doing them happily all day long.

I think it was probably the comment that private schools ignore human rights because money is involved that was the best one.

And the 'breakout rooms ' can be randomly assigned which helps to mix it up, and I pop into the rooms to check on them /offer advice etc which is in some ways better than the classroom as they are focused without distractions of other groups with their friends in.

I have three children and they haven't had one live or recorded class between them for the entirety of lockdown.

They have had work sent in the form of links to online platforms or power point presentations but nothing that resmembles a familiar face in a learning context.

@BeltaneBride Are you state or private and what kind of socio-economic intake?

@ITonyah
EEF research has said that there is no evidence that live lessons are better than pre recorded in terms of covering content and students learning. The important thing is the quality of explanation. A crap live explanation is worse than a good pre recorded one (even if the recording is done by someone else). However the important part is peer interaction and feedback on work.

Herc

Beltane is private.

why? my secondary dc have live lessons online and the clear expectation from school is that they attend. if they can't/won't parent are expected to write a justification

Is this a state school in the U.K.?

How have other European countries managed? Can we not follow their lead?

@hercwasonaroll
I appear to have a spokesperson 😄 (or stalker)
Independent senior school FWIW, We are trying things out and things are definitely improving as we all get used to working that way. The breakout rooms are successful -was nervous at first but the DC seem to enjoy the ersatz normal and getting used to working that way.

@BeltaneBride

Yes, I’m stalking you. I have so much to learn from your entirely different to mine context.

CamDram Going just on what I've seen from a few posts on here, students in other countries were provided with devices if they didn't have their own.

I'm in the netherlands.
education in school is mandatory.

during 'lockdown' schools offered a mix of life video classes, worksheets, group work via app. one short 1:1 video call with class teacher a week to catch up.

@bluefoxmug
Do you also have a fantastic childcare system in place for when the child cannot attend school?

When students are off for long periods does this kind of educational support still happen?

@LolaSmiles do you reckon I can fix it by having a more “can do” attitude?
Definitely. You've been on holiday for the last couple of months. Why didn't take a course in engineering and single-handedly construct an improved broadband connection to your house? Maybe if you spent some time finding the obvious solutions then you'd have fewer issues and could actually do your job. After all what exactly have you been paid for this half term?

Thought so.

I’m going to use my time in between idly flinging a couple of worksheets in the direction of Y8 to whittle myself a new super speed router out of a piece of driftwood.

Then I might have a cocktail 🤷🏻‍♀️

That's a much better attitude Smile. There's a good teacher. Remember not to tell anyone you're enjoying a cocktail at any point in the day, else you'll be the subject of a mumsnet thread entitled 'AIBU to think teachers are spending all day getting pissed on cocktails when they should be working'.

** titled, not entitled. I do love an apt autocorrect though.

Someone will be along in a mo to scold us for not taking it seriously.

Honestly, I am going to throw my frigging laptop in a fire if it doesn’t start complying*

*actually what I’m doing is arranging childcare in a slightly lockdown breaky way and going into school to use their network. Still. Damn me for my can’t do attitude.

I can't believe the arguments about live lessons. We have the 2nd worst infection and death rate in the world. Less advanced countries offer video lessons and we argue that it is not beneficial or too much pressure instead of pushing the country to catch up with the rest of the world. Live lessons are simply the best substitute and the closest to real school experience. If it doesn't work for your child than school generally doesn't work for your child. I heard that introvert kids come out of their shells in the virtual setting. You are so lucky if you can attend live lessons with breakout rooms/mostly in private schools .I have a sen child at home with a rare eating disorder and another one. (no support). I pay extra tuition which is online face to face twice per week, they developed more than by doing Google Classroom ppt s, worksheets and YouTube video clips and both of our schools are amazing. I have to support them all day which would be the teacher's job with online face to face present. (zoom/hangout/skype etc classes) I work from home usually from 6.00pm until 2/3 am at night as during the day I am a tutor/chef/mom/kid's IT support/ but Istill attend my video meetings, answer calls/reply to emails related to my job etc. I have the same expectations from teachers. Be present. I have the most respect for the profession and hardship but not replying private messages on the spot, not offering teaching for students while getting salary is not ok Posting BBC Bitesize clips and worksheets is NOT teaching. I can do it by myself there are plenty of options, furthermore because education is so bad, private tuition centers are popping up at every corner; 50% of kids from our class go somewhere. Not because they are less abled but because the quality of education is going deep downhill compare to the rest of the world. And we follow Asia where kids will start school as soon as they come out of our tummy. The difference is that lots of Asian parents are physical, we are not. Why not follow Finland where kids have a proper childhood and start school a lot later and ranked #1 in the world. (primary). Financially the extra tuition is a big burden for me but I can't imagine not doing it. And the latest news www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/education/2020/jun/10/uk-universities-suffer-worst-ever-rankings-in-world-league-table to see a bright future.

Less advanced countries offer video lessons
Which countries?

Live lessons are simply the best substitute and the closest to real school experience
Got any evidence for this?

I work from home usually from 6.00pm until 2/3 am at night

I'm a teacher with my own children, how can I deliver live lessons during these hours? It's almost like you have no experience of being an actual teacher....

Live lessons are simply the best substitute and the closest to real school experience
Got any evidence for this?

Well, it's stating the bleeding obvious (to coin a phrase) that live lessons are closest to the school experience (real time talking to teachers, working in pairs, "seeing" your classmates and hearing them answer questions, being asked questions and having to answer them).

Whether live lessons are better than prerecorded lessons and therefore "the best substitute" is moot. According to many on here they aren't, despite more and more schools beginning to offer them in the final half of term. They are certainly better for my child, who thinks she is learning more this way than in a traditional classroom setting.

It is probably the closest to the classroom experience as you are getting some kind of interaction and verbal instruction. However if few students turn up then it's not!!

There's extremes in this debate on MN and some people find it very difficult to realise there are hundreds of thousands of households for whom live lessons would not be the best option. Living in a MC private privelidged bubble makes it easy to "have the answers" without much thought beyond your own circumstances.

Some schools have been absolutely awful in their online provision and some teachers aren't working as many hours, however many are and many have been adapted to the needs of their learners quickly.

some people find it very difficult to realise there are hundreds of thousands of households for whom live lessons would not be the best option. Living in a MC private privelidged bubble makes it easy to "have the answers" without much thought beyond your own circumstances

No-one posting regularly on here has any experience of full live lessons as a parent of a child that is having them, except me, so I'll keep posting thanks. You can't shut me up by dismissing my experience because it's middle class and privileged.

No-one posting regularly on here has any experience of full live lessons as a parent of a child that is having them, except me, so I'll keep posting thanks. You can't shut me up by dismissing my experience because it's middle class and privileged.
I wasn't shutting you up, but full marks for taking an observation about discussion of live lessons on Mumsnet and making it about you.

The bottom line is, as I've said several times, there's a lot of posters on here who are going on and on about live lessons, what the private school up the road is doing, why state schools should be doing live lessons because their DC are in a private school and they have them and so on. There's also a good number of posters who try to play the 'I care about disadvantage' card only for it to quickly become evident that they really don't. Firstly they seem to have no clue about educational or social disadvantage (for example claiming there's no reason not to have live lessons because even smartphones and tablets can be used, assuming that every household has the required technology, for the minority then school could ask the community to send their old devices in etc). Secondly what they actually mean is 'I'm getting my pointy elbows out and don't really care'. Once people speak about actual disadvantage the pointy elbow types change their tune to 'oh dear well that is unfortunate but it really is unfair to hold everyone back because some people are poor', even though schools providing material for all to start with and right now there's no evidence live video lessons makes a difference.

So yes, people sitting in their nice little bubbles should kindly stop making grand pronouncements about what schools should/shouldn't be doing because they really haven't a clue.