To wonder why schools are saying they’re not allowed to do live lessons

[Plinkplonkplank]

Because they’ve just started doing them at my ds’s state secondary. We had to fill in an online permission form. So it is possible after all.

@ChocolateCard

Cardibach - because I am a governor. I’ve been hugely frustrated by some of the conversations that I’ve had to be involved in, and have put forward my views. However, the teachers don’t want to do it, and they are supported by both the deputy and the head, so my voice means nothing.

Fair enough. But I’d also want to know why they don’t want to. Is it -because they don’t think it’s appropriate for the students’ situation? -because some of them don’t have appropriate equipment/internet connection to do it well? -because they don’t have the skills to do it well and need training -because of a whole host of other reasons it could be, eg LEA advice?

Or, as you imply, because they are crap human beings who don’t want to help their students?

Hint: it won’t be the last one.

* Plinkplonkplank*
The lessons will be recorded so dc who can’t access it at the time can watch it when it fits in with their circumstances.
You said live lessons in your OP. Which is it?
Or are you stirring?

You can record live lessons so those that can't make it can watch them later.

@adirondack I'm sure your colleagues wouldn't use a screenshot to photoshop your face onto a meme or onto porn. There is a much higher chance of that happening to a secondary school teacher and not something I'm comfortable with.

We have massive spaces at our secondary school - halls, fields, car parks. I really hope some gcse drama PE and music can happen at some point as very hard to do all the course via laptop. Surely some can be done outside in small groups?

Chocolate my governor friends have confided the same 🙁

Our school aren’t because apparently some teachers ‘arent Comfortable’ on video. Meanwhile, in the real world, everyone else has had to get comfortable with that concept (video conferencing) real quick, as without
This
I have to do Zoom calls all day long
Hated it at first,still not over keen,but has to be done to get the job done

The Council in my area have a blanket ban on online teaching, whether live or recorded. "Safeguarding" is the reason and the approach is do not question us, do not ask for online teaching because it's not going to happen and that's that

What utter rot (as I’m sure you know)

DS’s (state) school has been delivering a full structured timetable via Google Classrooms with live video calls in certain lessons to support.

Not only that, but as a PP said, Oak Academy (which was set up by the government in response to this crisis) is doing just that.

Complete claptrap.

HP that would be a criminal offence and would face the usual penalties?

We are doing live lessons once a week for year 12 because the government has said there should be face to face contact ( think that is the wording) . I am using it to check learning rather than teach new content. That is useful but I do have a smallish class of 17. Would be less useful with a class of 30.

Presently the evidence says that lesson structure has more impact than whether it is live or not.

It’s a combination of 2 main things:

• not having any technical knowledge whatsoever. We seem to have many who just can’t even surf the Internet or use a smart phone.
• lack of confidence in appearing on video. Even just as a voiceover with powerpoints, and no visual images of them.

It’s certainly not guidance from the LEA. Other schools in the borough are embracing new methods.

I’d argue that the 2 reasons quoted above do indeed make them below par teachers. Unable to use technology and a total lack of confidence. Basic skills required for the job, surely?

In the case of DDs school I got the impression it was an equality thing. London suburb and a huge breadth of circumstances within the school. If the more deprived families weren't going to be able to access online classes etc., then no-one would be offered it. It's an outstanding school and they are making a good fist of getting pupils back into classrooms), but I think they let the majority of pupils down with this policy. That's why we've been using Oak National Academy and the Maths Factor etc.

With unis etc doing online videos etc it doesn’t seem logical that one educational place can, yet others can’t? Income does seem to be a big factor here.

Any misuse of content by students should face expulsion/action and this could be made very clear to them.

Live lessons aren’t appropriate for many schools as teachers, or families, or both, won’t have sufficient technology.

Pre-recorded videos I think are fine though, and should be voice only if teachers aren’t comfortable with giving kids their image.

Videos of any kind weren’t possible while lots of teachers were working from home though as few schools provided teachers with equipment.

Private schools doing lots of live lessons.

Training has been taking place in school to help teachers with the new tech. This has been happening since March so not sure why some don’t know what to do now. I think that is far less an issue than we might think.

Voice only with slides etc sounds fine 👍

My DC are all at private school and have used Microsoft teams since the first day of the summer term so have all online live lessons. I have been extremely impressed with the quality of the remote learning and know the staff worked incredibly hard over the easter holidays to get it in place.

I am not surprised though as there was a lot of bad feeling about paying still hefty school fees when the children weren't actually in school. The school has also opened its tennis courts and astros for pupils to use which has been great.

But I think private schools had to do this if they wanted parents to pay fees and for them to survive.

I totally understand though that not online lessons wouldn't be appropriate for all families as of course not every child has their own laptop. Very unfair I know.

There are some massive safeguarding issues with online lessons. Teachers shouldn’t do them from their bedroom, it would also be inappropriate for students to be seen in their bedroom, it could be a one on one conversation leaving staff open to accusations for example. Recorded lessons would be better to avoid that and then outgoing content can be monitored more easily. Also, parents/carers should be signing to give permission and also to show that they’re aware it is happening.

The thing is, Zoom has become the new normal for business. We take various precautions like putting on passwords, using waiting rooms and locking rooms once everyone is in.

There seems to be a fear all kinds of weirdos will gatecrash lessons, but we're not seeing this with business calls.

I've also seen Zoom used for webinars where none of the participants are visible to each other, only the host, and they can only communicate with the host via a text message that no one else can see.

If the children don't have equipment to participate, that I understand, but I'm a bit confused why safeguarding is the answer to everything.

If a pupil really wanted to make your life hell, I'm sure they could sneak a camera phone into a real in-person lesson and take a photo/video of you, so I don't see how Zoom changes that.

@BerylReader You can use virtual backgrounds with Zoom, so it looks like you're at school and not in your bedroom.

Issues here are broadband for them getting their lessons. But they did have training -far too many students thought they could zoom from their bedrooms or in a crop top and shorts or their bed- which apparently wasn't acceptable -not mine! but others -so we had to read and sign things for both of them. There is two members of staff on each zoom call. In one case (different schools) they only have audio and no video in the other case they have video and in the 3rd case they need me in room alongside my child. But our internet (broadband) cuts in and out and it's not possible for two of them to zoom at the same time. Safeguarding comes first. Also don't forget some kids are awful and would record a teacher make something with it and put it on the internet so I don't blame them for being cautious. I love that for the child doing the audio ones -that if they or one of their students makes a stupid comment etc they can just mute them or kick them out of the call. My son's teacher said it was great. Good take up so far

Zoom has a ‘change background’ feature to remove that risk.

You upload any photo - beach, library etc and you just appear before it.

Very easy to do and the teachers doing lessons are using them.

Kids can be told how to do that but I imagine many already know!

My daughter is at a private school and they all (from y1-12) have been accessing live lessons via google meet. Younger ones not live all day, but certainly all senior school and older ones at junior school. No safeguarding problems.
You can access it via computer or phone. It is problematic if you have more kids than devices (not usually an issue at a fee paying school), but I know the school helped out a number of families by lending them equipment.
Live lessons allows participation from the students for questions, discussions and feedback for comprehension. The students can turn off or on their cameras but the teacher takes attendance at the start of the lesson and can ask any student a question. It is not ideal but an adequate substitution for the moment.
Pre recorded lessons are useful, but do not obviously allow spontaneous interaction that is so valuable in a learning environment.
What is lacking is hands on work - art, drama, science experiments. For my Y10 child, one day a week in school for this after the 15th and hopefully more as the government allows. R, Y1 and 6 are all back in school now.
The state sector provision here has been very mixed. Even without online lessons many have given minimal work for the kids to do. While I believe missing a term will not impact the learning too badly in the long run for many year groups, there are crucial years (Y10 and 12 for example) where too much of the syllabus will be lost. It would have to be a very motivated student to cover this independently. I would have expected a more concentrated approach from the schools to provide some kind of provision for these year groups, perhaps even combining their efforts across the region. Sadly in many cases this just hasn't happened.

The defensiveness of teachers on here is getting ridiculous now. The OP asks a perfectly reasonable question about the provision of education to her children. Immediately people jump in posting flowers and commenting that it's not because teachers are bad people who don't care. No one has suggested that it is! This is a perfectly reasonable thing for someone on a parenting site to ask.
There is no need for teachers to silence and stifle debate on here continuously.

With Primary Schools the issue going forward may well be that the teachers can't deliver live lessons as they are teaching the pupils in school (R, Yr1 and Yr6 plus Keyworkers/vunerable)- at my DCs school every classroom is now in use us most of the staff.
I haven't been overly impressed with the home learning, but teachers can only be in one place at a time.

This is before we even get to the technology barrier. When a school is delivering food parcels, it doesn't take much imagination to realise that online capability of pupils might not be brilliant.