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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To wonder why schools are saying they’re not allowed to do live lessons

752 replies

Plinkplonkplank · 07/06/2020 09:39

Because they’ve just started doing them at my ds’s state secondary. We had to fill in an online permission form. So it is possible after all.

OP posts:
Hercwasonaroll · 10/06/2020 00:12

Live lessons can be archived.

Yes and no. Most of our live lessons have resulted in safeguarding concerns being raised, either from pupil comments in the chat function or pupil verbal response. These are downloaded to protect staff but cannot be uploaded so the teacher has to provide the lesson twice.

Access is a huge issue for us. We got 7 laptops from the government, our school has 1000 students.

Bflatmajorsharp · 10/06/2020 08:24

If 'live lessons can be archived' they're they cease to be a live lesson.

It's a recorded piece of teaching with slides, voice over, links to worksheets, questions afterwards etc.

Honestly, Laurie you would get much further with this if you actually spoke to your child's school, escalating it through the ranks, rather than continually pondered on MN about it.

And before you say that you've done this and they haven't responded a. no-one on MN can give you an answer, but that hasn't stopped you asking the same question over and over again b. they haven't not responded since the govt backed down all of yesterday.

Nonotthatdr · 10/06/2020 08:30

Herc

Doing GP consultation with a child on my knee here - well siting next to me on her fire with headphones. I ask if it’s ok before we start and most people have said yes. I use headphones so DD can’t hear what is being said and she can’t read so she can’t see details etc. With a tiny baby it would be easier. The NZ pm seems to be able to run a country and address the nation with a baby in arms

SmileEachDay · 10/06/2020 08:43

I agree that having children shouldn’t stop teachers teaching,

However, I continue to be absolutely mystified by the obsession with “live” lessons, when the research (such as it is) suggests that the delivery medium is not the important thing, it’s the way the lesson is structured to support learning.

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 08:48

@TriangularRatbag

How come private schools don't have those concerns?

They're only interested in one thing I'm afraid: money.

So they somehow magically sidestep human rights, fire regulations and national security? 😂
HugeAckmansWife · 10/06/2020 08:52

Live lessons to my v small 6th form class is great. To y8, completely pointless. They can't / won't interact with questions as they don't want to be seen or heard by others on the chat (completely OK with it in a social setting but not in learning mode) so it's just me talking to an empty screen which quite likely they've walked away from and are on another screen taking the piss out of the lesson. For my younger groups it's kuc better to record a short intro then leave the assignment details up. During the set 'lesson time' I monitor the chat page on their Team page and answer the questions (which are all answered in the Assignment detail anyway). For secondary pupils I hope this might push them to a little more independence and less hand holding.

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 08:52

@SmileEachDay

I agree that having children shouldn’t stop teachers teaching,

However, I continue to be absolutely mystified by the obsession with “live” lessons, when the research (such as it is) suggests that the delivery medium is not the important thing, it’s the way the lesson is structured to support learning.

What research?? How can there have been any relevant research?

Live lessons mean you have an actual teacher present. I've said before, dds school started with a mix of live and prerecorded lessons. Now every lesson is live as they found they got much better engagement that way. Almost certainly less work for the teachers as they can deal with questions that are relevant to all then and there, rather than having to answer the same questions from each individual student at random times.

LolaSmiles · 10/06/2020 08:55

The other school can provide some live lessons (plus other creative teaching methods, lots of video) and ours can’t. I don’t understand why that is.

As has been said on almost every thread on this topic, different schools have different contexts, different cohorts, different staffing considerations.

If the provision isn't good or appropriate then that's an issue to be raised with the school (and formally up to governors if needed), but 'the other school has live lessons and I think we should' doesn't equal poor provision.

We need to stop confusing good provision with live lessons. They are not the same thing.

LolaSmiles · 10/06/2020 08:59

What research?? How can there have been any relevant research?
The EEF have released some.
Again, this is one of the issues of people not in the field saying 'I think we should have live lessons because my gut instinct says it's better and /or another school has something I want so my DC's school must be useless'

Bflatmajorsharp · 10/06/2020 09:08

Nonotthatdr a short consultation with one other adult - or possibly two - is very different to an hour or so with up to 30 children.

Bflatmajorsharp · 10/06/2020 09:14

HugeAckmansWife yep. My Y8 dd has a weekly class Zoom check-in/assembly.

Most of the time was spent doing the 'can you hear me?', 'could you turn your camera on please, if not we can't start' stuff while the class Whatsapp group chat was exploding with exactly the piss taking you describe.

As per the school policy, the teacher eventually removed the children who wouldn't/couldn't turn their cameras on, leaving 3 out of the original 8 (class of 24).

Nonotthatdr · 10/06/2020 09:15

Bflat

I agree actually. I was directly responding to the poster that said that healthcare workers were not expected to consult with small children around

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 09:16

@LolaSmiles

What research?? How can there have been any relevant research? The EEF have released some. Again, this is one of the issues of people not in the field saying 'I think we should have live lessons because my gut instinct says it's better and /or another school has something I want so my DC's school must be useless'
I am not saying either of those things. I am saying my school say they feel live lessons are more effective.
solarlightexpress · 10/06/2020 09:17

My sons school didn't have anything like that for his class since the school closed but now all of a sudden it's twice a week.

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 09:19

My dd preferred non live lessons so she could do them at her leisure! I'm not saying live lessons are the best way to do anything, I'm saying the school prefers it and that they are now doing them exclusively. Whether this turns out to be right or wrong remains to be seen.

Nonotthatdr · 10/06/2020 09:21

I’d like to see much more ore recorded stuff and then some small group or one one one live stuff for 20min or so once a week, so that kids can have a check in with their teachers, receive feedback and ask questions. I think that would be great to help pupil motivation and accountability. If they knew Mrs Jones was going to call them at a set time and ask about their work they would be a lot more likely to do it and also have the mental support of knowing that Mrs Jones cares and is checking up on them. Short arranged in advance sessions would be much easier to facilitate in families where devices are shared etc

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 09:24

And yes, theres an argument to say that they are only providing live lessons to placate parents who demand them to carry on paying fees! But it doesn't take a genius to work out that a full days live lessons is going to be more effective than no engagement whatsoever, so at the moment I'll take that.

SmileEachDay · 10/06/2020 09:33

What research?? How can there have been any relevant research?

Are you implying that I am lying?

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 09:36

@SmileEachDay

What research?? How can there have been any relevant research?

Are you implying that I am lying?

No, failing to understand how any research could have been done, or if it has how relevant it could possibly be, when the outcomes are completely unknown
SmileEachDay · 10/06/2020 09:44

Perhaps that is because you don’t understand much about teaching and learning pedagogy as you imagine you do.

I think the EEF has already been mentioned.

CuckooCuckooClock · 10/06/2020 10:58

ITonya ”failing to understand”
Correct. You are. Maybe leave it to the people who do understand then? You know, those of us with expertise and experience?

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 11:55

CuckooCuckooClock

I am describing the truth of my own life and won't be warned off threads by you or anyone because my experience doesn't fit your narrative.

These are decisions made by a school, and teachers, not me personally. Who are you to say people shouldn't describe their own lived experience? Get over yourself.

ITonyah · 10/06/2020 12:02

And you can argue black is white all you want but the truth is that students who have had consistent online education including plenty of live lessons and/or interaction with their teachers are going to be streets ahead of those who haven't. That is a fact.

FrippEnos · 10/06/2020 12:09

ITonyah
And you can argue black is white all you want but the truth is that students who have had consistent online education including plenty of live lessons and/or interaction with their teachers are going to be streets ahead of those who haven't. That is a fact.

Its an assumption.

LolaSmiles · 10/06/2020 12:10

ITonyah
I wasn't saying you said any of those things.

I replied to your comment saying 'what research?'And then commented generally that this is the problem, research suggests that the structure of learning and content matters more than delivery and yet despite this there is thread after thread of 'i think live lessons are best... Why isn't my school doing live lessons when another school is'.

On Mumsnet many poster who have absolutely no training or experience of teaching seem to think they're suddenly best placed to comment on everything from issues affecting disadvantaged pupils to the structure of lessons, to mode of delivery, usually shifting the goalposts in the process.
Eg. cry disadvantage and pretend to care about educational disadvantage because their child hasn't got live online lessons, but if someone points out that there may be reasons why schools haven't done live lessons and are offering different provision suddenly the poster says something like 'oh well we can't hold everyone up just because some people haven't got WiFi at home'.

There's also a lot of posters (again with no teach experience) who seem to repeatedly not understand, or more accurately refuse to consider, that different schools have different contexts, different cohorts, and different challenges.

If anyone has issues with their child's school and the provision they're offering then it needs to be raised with them. Where schools are genuinely not doing enough then there's a formal complaints procedure and most teachers would support any parent who needs to going down that route. But this obsession on here with online learning is misplaced and it's evident that a substantial number of posters are writing from a position of privilege with very little consideration of life outside their bubble.