"Why have kids if you can't afford them?"

[DianneWhatcock]

Aibu to never forgive this once being said to me ?

My "best friend" since I was a teenager said it to me five years ago and I have never been able to fully move on from it. Because it's given me the unshakeable impression she looks down on me

At the time I was working pt with 3 under 8 inc a baby. Dh working full time in a fairly decent job (more than min wage) plus he had a second job (1/2 evenings a week plus was studying). We were renting and saving to buy. We used to get a small amount of tax credits but we relied on that to make ends meet. we ended up having our tax credits more or less stopped due to an overpayment that would last about a year. I was worried sick at the time as this genuinely really fucked us financially. I told her about it and how worried I was and her response was basically "well why have kids if you can't afford them?" (I should also add she hasn't got kids and lives rent free with her parents - they have a big house)

Nowadays we haven't claimed a penny for years. We own our house (mortgaged) , dh is a high earner I'm working more and we don't even qualify for the very basic child benefit.

However H is furloughed and I guess it's back on my mind. Cos if he ends up redundant we may face having to claim some form of benefits again even temporarily. But the thought terrifies me - I thought I was past that part of my life where I struggled and counted every penny. And I can't stand the thought of being a person that gets judged again (even though I would NEVER judge others that way I am not that kind of person)

I will never ever forget this comment and how shit it made me feel. she never really apologised and I don't know whether to just end the friendship Cos it has just tainted it for ever i think

I know this is a really rambly post so well done anyone who got this far

I think it is an unpleasant and unhelpful thing to actually say to someone.

However, I am often privately surprised at the number of my acquaintances on lower incomes who while on relatively low incomes have chosen to have third or fourth children. It's just not a decision I would ever make as it does increase the risk of ending up financially precarious.

@kgal3542 I wondered that! Genuinely 😂

I love the 'carnt be arsed to work so will keep popping them out' critism. Like having 5 children is so much easier than messing around in an office with adults all day.
And the real scandal is not that we support parents to bring up children at a cost to everyone, but that we facilitate huge revenue generating corporations to avoid tax on money earned whilst using our infra structure and our human resources and benefitting from our education system and our healthcare. All paid by children brought up by people like the OP, and all of us who are parents. Society gets a great deal from parents and people should recognise that.

@DianneWhatcock you're the person being nasty and aggressive because someone disagrees with you. Vile.

@ClareBlue you think people like that don’t exist?! She gets to stay home all day, smoking weed and apart from moaning about not getting time to herself then she is a natural mother and loves it and always hated working so yes, she does find it easier being a mum and scrounging.

Wow! Was feeling sorry for you and your tactless friend. Now I think she’d probably just had enough of your rudeness and decided to give you some back. FWIW I agree with her but wouldn’t say it to someone who already had three beautiful babies... but nor would I call someone who politely expressed their opinion in a debate a c**t

@ClareBlue not everyone is a good parent, so for some, sitting at home all day ignoring their kids or hanging out with their unemployed friends is easier than going to work and actually having to do something productive, follow rules and be accountable.

As other pp have said, I might think it but I wouldn’t say. I don’t understand people who have multiple dc when their finances are not enough to support that choice comfortably, though. Obviously, circumstances can change and if there’s a split, I think cms is often just not enough, childcare costs may shoot up, jobs may be lost.

@roarfeckingroar

Solo mummy is the only one I've been nasty to

And she deserves it she's vile

People can have as many kids they want but should not expect other people ( taxes) to pay for them.

Honestly . The right to have a child is not just for the rich .

We all do what we do .

Having children is a primal urge - look how desperate people feel who have issues with fertility- it isn’t like buying a phone contact you can’t afford

@adreamofspring

I reacted like that not because she didn't agree with me

But because of abhorrent views she's shared on other threads she is fucking horrible

Of course not everyone is a good parent, just like not everyone pays their taxes or doesn't steal or doesn't go to a workplace and produce anything or fakes disability or rips off their insurance claim etc etc but maybe one positive thing from the lockdown might be that having all day to do nothing as per 'scroungers' is not all it's cut out to be.

Tbh, you're beginning to sound like a complete arse. Like it or not, you did have kids you couldn't afford without state help. Should the friend have said so? Maybe not. But you did. You don't want to answer as to why you had so many in those circumstances, but it seems a little odd to start this thread and not expect people to mention it.

If you depended on tax credits when you had two children, why add a third when you weren’t able to support it yourself? It is irresponsible.

This

And the ones who say only have children you can afford, then I hope all you old age illnesses are only ones you can afford from your money. Not taxpayers money from the children brought up by those that could afford to have them without state help. We live in a society that values child rearing an financially support it and do not control the decisions on reproduction of individuals. At the margins there are always people that abuse any system. But if it is purely the cost of this abuse then there are more lucrative areas to deal with before benefits to families.

A family member is having a 4th child and lives in a 2 bed council flat and complain that they don't have a garden and it's cramped. This is irresponsible in my eyes as they're expecting the council to get them a bigger place. A prime example of don't have kids you can't afford.

Saying people shouldn't have kids 'they can't afford' in system which pays low wages and has sold off the majority of its social housing, leaving government benefits to fill the gap so that there isn't a mass strike and protests to increase wages, which has a large scale absentee father problem, a problem with domestic violence, and no decent enforcement of CSA (although it's always those feckless single mothers who are to blame, obvs) is borderline social eugenics. Poor people are allowed to have kids. As many as they like. And use whatever system is available to them. Or are people meant to NOT claim benefits they are entitled to and give their kids a worse life style just to stop nasty people judging them?

You don't know what's in your future. Anybody can end up needing benefits. Nobody is immune to poverty. Some are much further away, but it's always a possibility.

*Honestly . The right to have a child is not just for the rich .

No but a sure way to remain very poor is to have many kids if you can”t afford them.

Wow, you've turned both and braggy and nasty, calling a poster who gave a perfectly polite response a cunt.

Well it seems that all the financial improvements made are all down to your husband, not you. Hope that stays fine for you.

Growing up in a household where it was a real struggle to make ends meet, yes it's selfish to have more than you can afford. It's one thing if circumstances change, but quite another to make a conscious decision to when already stretched. And no, there's nothing wrong with claiming benefits if needed, that's surely what they are there for.

Absolutely people can have whatever number of children they want. Doesn't mean others won't think them irresponsible however.

Poor in material things but rich in love, the priorities working class people have had to live by since time immemorial. Because the bourgeoisie never want poor people to just be comfortable and have freedom of choice. They must be oppressed into submitting to the values of the ruling classes or suffer their consequences of their immoral greed

Suffer THE consequences not THEIR sorry