You're white you cannot experience racism 3

[PatricksRum]

And it continues. Thank you for those black people who took the time to share their stories once again.

@Whataloadofshite @BeforeIPutOnMyMakeup @CandyLeBonBon @WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee
Thank you all.

We can work side by side
But first you have to check your privilege
If you can't even see it, if you engage in a whole tonne of whataboutery and if you get offended that black people are angry about racism then how can you seriously expect to work with them to defeat it

But first you have to check your privilege

I routinely ignore anyone who uses this phrase.

Would you respond better to 'acknowledge your privilege'

Acknowledgment doesn't have to mean self-flagellation.

Why do people take such a defensive stance on this? It's not an attack it's just the reality.

Patricksrum thank you for these threads. You must be exhausted and you are right to continue them. I have learned much as white Irish person. It always shocked me while working in London when white people would say racist things to me about black people assuming I'd agree or collude. Racism is ingrained into the very fabric of white society and we need to end it.

I routinely ignore anyone who uses this phrase.

Why?

'Check your priveledge' is as meaningless as 'check your height'.
Yup, it's still there, and there ain't much I can do about it.

@WokeUpSmeltTheCoffee it’s hard to engage with someone when they seem so angry AT you. I understand being angry at racists. But why put us all in this box? I don’t want racism to exist. I hate seeing people treated badly due to any protected characteristic and if I do I will call it out.

Being aware of it might affect the way you behave though

Like if you're aware you are tall you duck when going through doorways

If you are aware you have white privilege you might try to use it to help those who don't

What!!! Height is as politically and socially charged as skin colour in a racist society. Dreadful analogy and to8u clearly are not interested in acknowledging the benefits afforded to you by your skin colour.

Acknowledge privilege- yes I get that.

Why can’t we just work hand in hand to end this? Side by side.

Because when black people tell white people what the issue is, they tell us we are wrong. Or they are offended that chunks of life are easier for them or set up in their favour and that we have observed that. It must be very difficult to hear that parts of life are easier for you and it’s natural to went to defend yourself or say “hey but xyz bad things happened to me, how can I have privilege?”
But unfortunately we have been too patient and understanding about the discomfort of those who benefit from black people being seen as lesser, for too long.

I’d love to fight racism side by side but when people who tell us that we are completely wrong about racism, power and white privilege, it becomes pretty difficult.

Acknowledgment doesn't have to mean self-flagellation.

This. This. This.

I don't like sanctimonious little catch phrases. I think it's glib and doesn't actually mean anything. It's a sound bite. I'll consider how I am advantaged when required to and have done all my life, but I just find that the kind of person who uses that phrase is more excited about getting to use it than in the nuance and depth that these discussions require.

This will probably get lost or misconstrued and misinterpreted, but here goes anyway....

Black Lives DO Matter!

However, and I write this only because of the tone of previous threads BUT.....

Metaphor:

I’m suffering from an illness, someone else is also suffering a variant of the illness I suffer but it’s not exactly the same. I could sit there and say well my variant of this illness is worse than yours and I have suffered longer, so I should be more important and the focus right now, so let’s not talk about yours just mine and those exactly like me. Well, yes fine I suppose I could do that....

The thing is I rather think to myself hey, this illness is awful, I’m so sorry you suffer in a similar way but you know what, why don’t we fight this together because your are affected too....and 2 voices together are louder than 1.

Trying to eradicate racism, means eradicating it as a whole and to everyone and anyone who may experience it. If your just going to focus on the atrocities against one group of people you are missing the opportunity to garner the support and the added voice of those who suffer along with you (even if as far as your concerned they may not suffer in the same way or as much) and adding the power of their anger at their mistreatment to your cause. Including them in the fight does NOT dilute the cause it strengthens it!!!

Racism should not be left to stand, no matter how minor and no matter the colour/race/nationality/religion it is targeted towards.

Let’s say we solved the racism towards black people tomorrow, and black people were no longer experiencing it, which would be great. However racism would still exist against other minorities, do you not think that by letting it still exist in other forms you risk it creeping back into your own world.

Racism anywhere and in any form is absolutely awful and completely abhorrent - no question!!! However there is literally no point in having a pissing contest over who’s experience of it is worse, or who’s the most oppressed or longest suffering. This does not mean that one groups suffering is not worse or more systemic or more longstanding than another.

You don’t have to diminish others experience just because you don’t think it’s as bad as what you experience.

You were called white trash in a bar once in 1995!! I’m so sorry, let’s fight this together!

Someone wouldn’t employ you because your name was too ethnic. I’m so sorry, but you know what why don’t we fight together.

People tell racist jokes about your culture all the time. I’m so sorry, how awful! Let’s fight this together.

People hold you back, people assume things about you, you don’t have the same opportunities as others, you are more at risk of death! I’m so sorry, that is terrible why don’t we join forces and fight this together.

As someone who has suffered racism and who has known I was different my whole life, I’m both saddened and overjoyed if and when someone else understands even just half of how that makes me feel. Overjoyed because is great that someone else gets it, and yet desperately sad because if they do it’s because they’ve suffered similar.

Anyone can experience racism, perhaps not in the way you do OP but the way I see it I am NO one to tell someone else of the racism they’ve experienced or how bad it was/is or that mine is worse. I am not judge and jury on what others experience and neither is anyone else.

Racism is awful, it’s ALL awful and it needs to STOP!

All I’m saying is, is....to tackle it for one you must tackle it for ALL.

We are stronger when we ALL stand and fight together.

I stand, I fight!

I don't experience the OP as being angry at me. She's angry at racism.
She's angry at posters repeatedly deflecting from the issue with what aboutery. She's angry that people advance their minor experiences of discrimination and suggest that these are of equivalent magnitude to her life experience.
She's not indiscriminately angry at all white people.

She's been very gracious and specifically thanked people who contributed to the thread and acknowledged they had learnt from it.

@Moonmelodies
Check your priveledge' is as meaningless as 'check your height

It’s a passive aggressive saying used with the sole intention of making you feel shit.

@Blackbucket - I don’t think you are wrong. Of course it exists. I just think there has to be a collaborative approach to defeating it and creating a zero tolerance stance on it. It is unacceptable on a human rights level. You shouldn’t have to beg for the right to be treated the same as a white pardon but because some people can’t see it through your eyes - truths must be told and shared so people can see and understand. People won’t always just know about it.

It's not glib or sanctimonious at all.

It's pretty powerful when you take all of your own defensive feelings out of it.

If it makes you feel bad about yourself you need to ask why.

People shouldn't have to alter it to "acknowledge".

Catch phrases and 'glin' sayings are essential in what was originally an online movement. Anyone who understands nuance will get this. BLM was hugely supported by online platforms and used it widely, I dont think a fully fledged essay would help with #. Its part of how activism works. How language works.

It's not glib or sanctimonious at all.

Yes it is.

It's pretty powerful when you take all of your own defensive feelings out of it.

No it isn't.

Of course you won’t always just know, but equally can you imagine how exhausting it is to answer the same questions over and over? It’s like trying to escape the annoying bloke in the bar, genuinely so knackering you don’t have the mental fortitude for it sometimes. I mean at least once a year ask if my “pubes are different to white girl pubes”, so you can imaging explaining the difficulties of living a black life are exhausting. It never ends and more often than not when I (or any of my black friends and family) discuss white privilege in front of white people, even with some friends they find it very uncomfortable and decide I’m either attacking, calling them racist or exaggerating. Even last week discussing the colours that plasters come in and how nice it was to see some variety in skin tones recently - that was me apparently calling them racist. Feeling uncomfortable by the advantages your skin affords you isn’t my problem but it’s also not me calling you racist.

So I’ve stopped going into detail about white privileged and ask friends to read from a selection of resources that have been collated online. There are lots and lots of people sharing useful resources online to stop black women having to do such hard emotional labour in a time or heartbreak.
The problem is, the black people are expected to do all of the leg work and others are often very offended by being asked to read a few things.

@Lillygolightly

To use another metaphor about illnesses:

There are lots of sick people in a hospital. All of the patients there need treatment, but you’re going to treat the people who are dying, and in the most critical need of medical help, first.

I think the language around 'white privilege', regardless of inherent validity of the concept, is spectacularly unhelpful in terms of communication with groups of people not already steeped in this type of discourse.

I did discuss this earlier in the thread, and gave examples of how you can communicate a concept around the burden of racism without using ineffective language.

@Lillygolightly

This will probably get lost or misconstrued and misinterpreted, but here goes anyway....

Black Lives DO Matter!

However, and I write this only because of the tone of previous threads BUT.....

Metaphor:

I’m suffering from an illness, someone else is also suffering a variant of the illness I suffer but it’s not exactly the same. I could sit there and say well my variant of this illness is worse than yours and I have suffered longer, so I should be more important and the focus right now, so let’s not talk about yours just mine and those exactly like me. Well, yes fine I suppose I could do that....

The thing is I rather think to myself hey, this illness is awful, I’m so sorry you suffer in a similar way but you know what, why don’t we fight this together because your are affected too....and 2 voices together are louder than 1.

Trying to eradicate racism, means eradicating it as a whole and to everyone and anyone who may experience it. If your just going to focus on the atrocities against one group of people you are missing the opportunity to garner the support and the added voice of those who suffer along with you (even if as far as your concerned they may not suffer in the same way or as much) and adding the power of their anger at their mistreatment to your cause. Including them in the fight does NOT dilute the cause it strengthens it!!!

Racism should not be left to stand, no matter how minor and no matter the colour/race/nationality/religion it is targeted towards.

Let’s say we solved the racism towards black people tomorrow, and black people were no longer experiencing it, which would be great. However racism would still exist against other minorities, do you not think that by letting it still exist in other forms you risk it creeping back into your own world.

Racism anywhere and in any form is absolutely awful and completely abhorrent - no question!!! However there is literally no point in having a pissing contest over who’s experience of it is worse, or who’s the most oppressed or longest suffering. This does not mean that one groups suffering is not worse or more systemic or more longstanding than another.

You don’t have to diminish others experience just because you don’t think it’s as bad as what you experience.

You were called white trash in a bar once in 1995!! I’m so sorry, let’s fight this together!

Someone wouldn’t employ you because your name was too ethnic. I’m so sorry, but you know what why don’t we fight together.

People tell racist jokes about your culture all the time. I’m so sorry, how awful! Let’s fight this together.

People hold you back, people assume things about you, you don’t have the same opportunities as others, you are more at risk of death! I’m so sorry, that is terrible why don’t we join forces and fight this together.

As someone who has suffered racism and who has known I was different my whole life, I’m both saddened and overjoyed if and when someone else understands even just half of how that makes me feel. Overjoyed because is great that someone else gets it, and yet desperately sad because if they do it’s because they’ve suffered similar.

Anyone can experience racism, perhaps not in the way you do OP but the way I see it I am NO one to tell someone else of the racism they’ve experienced or how bad it was/is or that mine is worse. I am not judge and jury on what others experience and neither is anyone else.

Racism is awful, it’s ALL awful and it needs to STOP!

All I’m saying is, is....to tackle it for one you must tackle it for ALL.

We are stronger when we ALL stand and fight together.

I stand, I fight!