To think that people who say that school is not childcare are being disingenuous

[Notcontent]

There have been so many threads started by people struggling to work while schools are closed, and invariably there are posters who bang on about how “school is not childcare” etc and people just need to suck it up... there was another one today - about holiday clubs - with someone saying that “holiday clubs are a privilege”!

That makes me so mad. The reality is that children (and actually teenagers too) need care and structure and can’t just be left for days and weeks on end to fend for themselves. In historical times, before we had schools, before most people worked outside the home, young children were looked after at home by extended families and later often worked alongside their parents. Current social structure - where most mend and women work outside the home (and need to do so to support themselves) - relies on schools playing a part.

@echt

If school isn’t childcare.... why have they opened up school hubs for keyworkers kids??

Teachers were very unwise to do this and should have negotiated a deal for TOIL. It's what I do - no TOIL, no echt.

But wouldn't you have ordinarily been in the classroom anyway?

Or do you mean in the holidays? That's fair enough!!

Obviously the primary role of school is to provide an education for our children, however for me it does also serve as childcare as (outside of lockdown) I work during school hours. My job is one that cannot be done from home and is in an industry that was forced to close at the start of lockdown so I am currently furloughed. DP is a keyworker and has been working as per normal during lockdown. My DC’s school are only allowing children of 2 keyworker parents (in a dual parent household) to attend and as the number of children in this catagory attending the school is very high compared to other schools in the area this week they have only been able to extend their provision to children in nursery and year R, years 1 and 6 are not able to return.
I have had some communication from my employer regarding returning to work (gov guidelines suggest they may be able to open again in July) and have been told that furlough will end either when we return to work or at the end of July, whichever is earlier. Normally during half terms and holidays I use a mixture of holiday clubs and IL’s for childcare. I’m doubtful that holiday clubs will be able to run in August, and MIL is medically vulnerable so can’t have them providing childcare. My own parents still work themselves. So worried what will happen with my job and if school provision is still patchy in September... well then who knows what will happen

School is childcare. It’s there so parents can work
Of course its not. It's there to educate the children. It is not free childcare. Parents are responsible for caring for their children, or paying for someone to care for them schools are there to teach them.

Or do you mean in the holidays? That's fair enough!!

I mean weekends and holidays, my day off too, as I'm part-time.

@LaurieMarlow
LaurieMarlow

it’s no body’s fault, no ones, but as they are your children it is your problem

Well I’d love to know whose problem it is to provide for my children when I find myself unable to do my job because there is no childcare,

Oh wait, me again ...

How the fuck is that supposed to work?

Well yes, it is your problem, it doesn’t matter how it’s supposed to work because it’s your problem.

It’s not right, or just, or even acceptable...but this is how it’s working out so far. Just tough, your problem, deal with it or go poor (even though their is nothing you can do too deal with it!)

@LaurieMarlow

It's absolutely shit, yes.

But genuinely what alternative can you suggest? What alternative would you want and accept?

Parents are responsible for caring for their children, or paying for someone to care for them schools are there to teach them

Teachers! There is no shame in providing childcare at the same time as teaching the fundamentals of our society. As so many already have pointed out, (primary) school provision is also a form of childcare. While children are at school, parents are expected to be at work. That's how our society works.

@Ylvamoon

Yes but if a child can not attend primary school for whatever reason (bad behaviour, illness, snow ect) the onus is on the parents to find an alternative, not the school.

While children are at school, parents are expected to be at work

No they're not.

@strawwaterbottle By that logic we should all as a society get a say in how children are raised, parents shouldn't be allowed to have such individualistic approaches to parenting based solely on what's best for them/their little family

Well yes, that is absolutely the point too. It's a historical aberration to have only one or two parents responsible for shaping child's entire upbringing. It's exhausting for the parents and often limiting for the child - for every child who is getting a brilliantly personalised and shaped path (and of course there are some), there are many more who are missing out because of carers who are exhausted, because they are not benefiting from multiple points of view/personalities/people with time to spare for them etc.

The culture my parents were born into has many minuses as well as pluses, but the older I get and my dcs get, the more I see the benefits of a more community-based approach to child rearing.

Teachers were very unwise to do this and should have negotiated a deal for TOIL. It's what I do - no TOIL, no echt.

So, you would seriously suggest that in order to support a philosophical point, teachers should all be home or being given months of extra time off once the crisis is over and children desperately need an education, and deny a route that help key workers be able to support our hospitals and supermarkets, that is quick to implement and ensures that children are in the care of trained and responsibile adults without incurring yet more national debt...

Views and posts like this are exactly what end up fuelling 'teacher bashing' that is incredibly unfair in most cases, but as you've shown, not all

'It's funny that in the U.K. everyone turns to the teachers and school for childcare...meanwhile in Ireland, schools are closed and no one is blaming/expecting anything from the teachers!!'

My Irish friend has had full on all day teaching for her children since day 1 since this started.

Both my kids schools are closed still.

That aside. Maybe look into/ have a think about why the schooling system came about and why.

Someone once said "school isn't childcare" to me when I was explaining that when DDs go to school, my childcare costs would reduce, and how we'd spaced out our family so that there wouldn't be two requiring childcare at once for a long period. I politely tore a strip off her.

I don't think that phrase is intended to denigrate the role of teachers, but from a practical point of view most families plan life around children being in school 6 hours a day and then use wrap around childcare if necessary. I am furloughed but it looks likely I will have to resign as with no school, no breakfast club and no afterschool club I don't have any childcare. In the summer we normally use holiday clubs - also not looking likely to be available. We don't have local family but grandparents are in the at-risk groups anyway. I guess we could try to employ an au pair / childminder type person and accept that will eat up most of my salary in the hope the situation is temporary?

Well of course school isn't designed as childcare, and teachers are, well, teachers. But we are obliged to send kids to school, so we're obliged to use it as an environment to which we send children that is safe for them and ensures they are supervised and educated. If we didnt have schools then yes, I'd have continued to send my children to a nursery type environment or holiday style club whilst I worked...but I couldn't. So I dont have any alternative set up. Why would I, when the state mandates where I send my children between 9 and 3 in term time?
And usually the state does give some credence to this perception, because single parents are moved to jsa once their child is of school age aren't they? Precisely because they are then free to look for work.
This attitude reminds me of the head teacher of the state primary I tried to enrol my son in. Apparently I had to give her the name of a person who could be at the school in 15 minutes if called in case of emergency 'school isn't childcare you know'. Yeah, I got that. But understand I'm a single parent with a job 10 miles away and no local family, obliged to send my son to school now, rather than the fab nursery next to work I was using. What's your solution? I give up my job to stay at home in case you need me to come get him? And we eat and drink air I assume? It's people like that teacher that de rail us into arguments like these, rather than conce treating on finding a solution to the current educational crisis, high death rate and the fact that most teachers are fab (and indeed are often working parents themselves).

It's semantics. Schools provide education and pastoral care enabling parents to not need childcare during school hours.

The golden test is the school holidays and the end of the school day. I am a teacher, am I going to look after someone else's child then - no! After 3.30 I have out of class work to do. Supervision of the child becomes the parents' responsibilty when the hours of education finish. As a parent myself I have to pay for after-school care to solve this problem.

In regard to the holidays, we only get paid for term time, and build up holiday pay. Our pay is then divided up equally into monthly pay. Hence, we do not get paid for childcare in the holidays and are not expected to work then.

I don't have anyone that could be there in 15 minutes either and neither did my own parents. Don't think that one is realistic.

If you say to a teacher "schools are childcare" it sounds a little like saying to a doctor "hospitals are nursing homes". Ends and means and all that .

@ShinyFootball how has she managed that...schools here are completely shut!! None are open. Unless you mean through online means??

Schools aren't 'childcare' but the government normally provides school for children so it is reasonable for parents to expect they can work whilst children are at school.

The alternative is that parents dont work, which will soon impact the economy to an extent that the government cant afford to fund schools. Surely it is better that we are all working?

‘Yes but if a child can not attend primary school for whatever reason (bad behaviour, illness, snow ect) the onus is on the parents to find an alternative, not the school’

Not really ... the LEA has an obligation to offer children a school place. Often they are also obliged to find alternative placement in a different school if there are behavioural or learning issues. Of course children don’t go to school if sick, that would spread virus’s. That doesn’t mean that school isn’t childcare though

Early years funding through nurseries is also about getting parents into work

I think it’s often said by people who have extended family to do emergency childcare, who don’t think too deeply about what life would be like if that was not available

I dont think schools are child care. In any other year I would have had a working assumption that my kids would be there from 08:45 until 15:30. I have to work on that assumption so that I can plan around it (ie wrap around care, holiday provision). If they are off unexpectedly, either DH or I obviously have to cover it.

We know this is our responsibility, we do this. But equating the struggles of parents during an unprecedented world wide pandemic, and dismissing them as "well school is not child care" is not really helpful. The fundamental assumption that underpins our entire budget financially and time wise has be removed. Please tell me I am wrong for assuming 2020 was going to be like every previous year? And how exactly parents should have planned for this? It's like me demanding to know why schools hadn't already been set up to have small "bubble" classrooms and extra staff and rooms on hand just in case. I'm not BTW.

I really think a bit more sympathy with each group wouldn't go amiss here. Everyone is dealing with a difficult situation.

If you say to a teacher "schools are childcare" it sounds a little like saying to a doctor "hospitals are nursing homes". Ends and means and all that

What? No, it's really not. What it is like is if I had care of a couple of elderly relatives, and had been told that for the next 13 years they would need to be in the hospital for treatment 9-3.30, plus maybe 2 extra hours a day that I could pay for in order to work, 5 days a week for most of the year (and once I'd started taking her, I'd get fined if they missed a day for any reason other than illness)... And then the coronavirus came around and people said I was a lazy relative because it wasn't possible to give the elderly couple anything like the care they needed while.holding.down a job, and why didn't I have a backup plan.